[26343] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 8518 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Oct 12 21:05:34 2005
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 12 Oct 2005 Volume: 10 Number: 8518
Today's topics:
Re: a little different thread (about jobs and perl) <no@email.com>
Re: a little different thread (about jobs and perl) <pdc@cdp.moc>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry (Dave Hansen)
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry (Gordon Burditt)
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Re: LWP::UserAgent post to post other than 80 <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: regexp with sequences of Escape <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: regexp with sequences of Escape <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: why the perl docs suck <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: why the perl docs suck <Fred@fred.net>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:22:36 +0100
From: Brian Wakem <no@email.com>
Subject: Re: a little different thread (about jobs and perl)
Message-Id: <3r59kcFhombaU1@individual.net>
Krystian wrote:
> Hi all
> I'm finishing my university of technology and i wonder what is a
> position of Perl (and technologies which uses it) in industry. I can
> see that most job offers are related to Java, PHP languages (of course
> not only but mostly) and related technologies like J2EE and so on. I
> love Perl but i've learnt it (and i'm still learning) just beceuse i
> appreciate it potential connected with simplicity (and there is also
> one hundred other reasons). I would like to know what is Your opinion,
> knowlage and experience with 'industry reality/life'. Is there also a
> lot of great jobs, maybe better salaries or something else ... please
> share with Your knowledge. thanks in advance.
>
> best
> krystian
IMO lots of companies could make good use of a Perl programmer but don't
realise it.
Companies spend many thousands on inflexible software, data processing, data
entry etc, when a good perl programmer could solve all these problems.
Trouble is the management/HR at these companies do not even know what Perl
is or that there are people out there that could accomplish these tasks
with some simple scripting.
--
Brian Wakem
Email: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/b.wakem/myemail.png
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:01:52 -0400
From: "pdc" <pdc@cdp.moc>
Subject: Re: a little different thread (about jobs and perl)
Message-Id: <HBg3f.5280$S43.679987@news20.bellglobal.com>
"Brian Wakem" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:3r59kcFhombaU1@individual.net...
> Krystian wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>> I'm finishing my university of technology and i wonder what is a
>> position of Perl (and technologies which uses it) in industry.
It's simply a tool. If you are looking for jobs that require language
abilities, it will stand you in good stead as an example that you know how
to code for solutions.
A business is only usually interested in three things on a prospective
applicant's resume (CV)
What skills you can bring to help solve problems in their business processes
How much money your skills will save them
How much your salary will cost them.
perl is used extensively in my department mostly for in-house admin
applications. Other groups use other languages for their own
'quick-n-dirties' I doubt any of them got their positions by having perl on
their list of attributes *alone.* They were probably hired because of their
ability to show programming ability, social adeptness and business accumen.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:40:34 GMT
From: Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <ml0rk1lb6okvoi2r9b4bgttrihe4he019m@4ax.com>
On 12 Oct 2005 01:43:32 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote
or quoted :
>> So let's say I decide to send an email to Donald Knuth.
>
>:-)
I did write him, snail mail, and he responded giving us permission to
rewrite any of the algorithms in his famous set of books in to Java.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:44:22 GMT
From: Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <8q0rk1tiktr86ksdu55mgsqffpkf2uus1c@4ax.com>
On 09 Oct 2005 14:06:20 -0700, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote or quoted :
>That's the worst of all. I certainly don't want my mail reader
>opening network connections to arbitrary places when I read my mail.
>I have no willingness at all to reveal my mail reading habits or IP
>address to everyone who sends me email.
Obviously you can't trust anything code-like that arrives from
strangers. It is an extension of the law Mommy laid down not to take
candy from strangers.
However, formatted text is not code. Pictures are not code. It is
unfair to tar them with the brush of JavaScript or the goofy things
Outlook does with enclosures.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:50:22 GMT
From: Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <8v0rk1hjh0k6q2estgqc19i0da59fgurse@4ax.com>
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:53:52 +0200, "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
wrote or quoted :
>Don't think that that is true for everybody. For example not for people
>that are behind central filters that already cope with common spam.
The variants of the Nigerian spam are getting cleverer and cleverer to
get though the filters. I can't always immediately recognise them. No
wonder the spam filter gets fooled too.
We victims of spam collectively are about the silliest of victims
imaginable. We provide a FREE service to the spammers to torment us
with. WE SUBSIDISE THEM. It costs them almost nothing to send a spam,
and even at the weakest response percentages they still make money.
It is almost like providing ladders and setting out cookies and milk
for the burglars.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:00:04 GMT
From: Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <qn1rk1tjulh5i6ncith560llv4sjf44usa@4ax.com>
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:58:42 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
<steve@REMOVETHIScyber.com.au> wrote or quoted :
>Sheesh Roedy, to listen to you go anyone would think that human
>communication was impossible before HTML email was invented.
People got along fine wearing untanned moosehides too. I don't see
any advantage in wearing a hair shirt. That is an unnatural way to
talk.
I know hundreds of people who would have not the tiniest clue what
that email meant. You are indeed fortunate to have landed such a
wife.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:02:23 GMT
From: iddw@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <1129154547.6d0f3b178a128cc5f647dc0e128bc180@teranews>
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:44:22 GMT, Roedy Green
<my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid> wrote:
[...]
>Obviously you can't trust anything code-like that arrives from
>strangers. It is an extension of the law Mommy laid down not to take
>candy from strangers.
>
>However, formatted text is not code. Pictures are not code. It is
>unfair to tar them with the brush of JavaScript or the goofy things
>Outlook does with enclosures.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS04-028.mspx
Summary: a buffer overflow problem in Microsoft's JPEG redering
library, used my almost all Windoze email and web clients, would allow
an attacker to execute any arbitrary code he wished on your computer
simply by tricking you into viewing a doctored JPEG image. Since
solved (this problem is _so_ last year, dahling), but it belies your
assertion that "pictures are not code."
Regards,
-=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:07:15 -0000
From: gordonb.e2yfo@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <11kr5p3hstor935@corp.supernews.com>
>However, formatted text is not code.
HTML is much more than formatted text.
>Pictures are not code. It is
>unfair to tar them with the brush of JavaScript or the goofy things
>Outlook does with enclosures.
If you take all the dangerous stuff out of HTML, like:
Links
Javascript
Forms
References to other files
you'd have very little left. I suggest that for formatted text,
TROFF would be a better start.
Gordon L. Burditt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:05:31 GMT
From: Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <ul8rk1pfe67dsfb4gh0q73ittmprh8liuj@4ax.com>
uOn Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:02:23 GMT, iddw@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)
wrote or quoted :
>Summary: a buffer overflow problem in Microsoft's JPEG redering
>library, used my almost all Windoze email and web clients, would allow
>an attacker to execute any arbitrary code he wished on your computer
>simply by tricking you into viewing a doctored JPEG image. Since
>solved (this problem is _so_ last year, dahling), but it belies your
>assertion that "pictures are not code."
By your definition all socket communications contains code because of
the existence of buffer overrun "bugs" -- probably deliberately put
there by unscrupulous employees.
The pictureness is not at fault. MS was at fault.
No wonder the community has failed to solve spam with attitudes like
that -- extreme naysaying, misplacing the source of the problem, and
calling each other "dahling" is bound to get everyone out of a
problem-solving mode.
You probably were all told the story of the three sillies as a child
about people who wept themselves to inaction worrying imagined futures
rather than dealing with the realities of the present. I think
fretting about minutiae, and the desire for a perfect ant-spam
solution has blocked getting on with a reasonable solution.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:08:24 GMT
From: Roedy Green <my_email_is_posted_on_my_website@munged.invalid>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <b89rk1phchi0224ha46cq1k1rqvld2a3jf@4ax.com>
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:07:15 -0000, gordonb.e2yfo@burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote or quoted :
> Links
> Javascript
> Forms
> References to other files
the only piece of that particularly dangerous is JavaScript. So long
as you have a scheme to unmask where links are really going links are
no more dangerous than they are in browser.
Even a form is not dangerous. You have to fill it in and hit submit.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:11:46 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: LWP::UserAgent post to post other than 80
Message-Id: <slrndkqkf2.5hk.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
> Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.research.att.com/~hpk/wsp/
>
> Thanks!
You're welcome.
I have dozens of web scrapers in use, I run the wsp often. :-)
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:08:46 +0000 (UTC)
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: regexp with sequences of Escape
Message-Id: <Xns96ED8FEEE8E40asu1cornelledu@132.236.56.8>
Steffen Netz <SteffenNetz@freenet.de> wrote in news:20051012183935.00000df8
@sund35:
> I'm searching for a solution for the following problem:
>
> I have a string:
> $s= "bla \foo\\foo1\\foo2\\\ bla2";
I am not sure $s at this point contains what you think it contains.
> I want to get the replacement:
> $r= "bla foo_foo1_foo2 bla2";
What have you tried?
>
> Attachment decoded: untitled-2.txt
> --Multipart_Wed__12_Oct_2005_18_39_35_+0200_7Bb1tmQR61=fSx07
Don't do that.
Sinan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:24:13 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: regexp with sequences of Escape
Message-Id: <slrndkql6d.5hk.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Steffen Netz <SteffenNetz@freenet.de> wrote:
> --Multipart_Wed__12_Oct_2005_18_39_35_+0200_7Bb1tmQR61=fSx07
Please don't do that silly stuff. Usenet is a plain text medium.
> I have a string:
> $s= "bla \foo\\foo1\\foo2\\\ bla2";
^^
^^ form feed character
Try inserting this statement right here:
print "(($s))\n";
Does it print what you were expecting it to print?
> I want to get the replacement:
> $r= "bla foo_foo1_foo2 bla2";
^
^ ff got replaced with "f"
Do you really want to replace a form-feed character witht the "f"
character like you show?
Nobody know what your real problem is ...
> --Multipart_Wed__12_Oct_2005_18_39_35_+0200_7Bb1tmQR61=fSx07
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=orcad.pl
[ snip *550* lines! Oh the humanity! ]
... because you did not post a short and complete program
that we can run.
Have you seen the Posting Guidelines that are posted here frequently?
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:42:56 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: why the perl docs suck
Message-Id: <g22023xlgl.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2005-10-12, David K. Wall <darkon.tdo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What about iPod? Is that Perl documentation for an iMac?
Probably written using eMacs.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:44:14 -0500
From: "Fred@fred.net" <Fred@fred.net>
Subject: Re: why the perl docs suck
Message-Id: <i2brk1hnn70oqknio8ids05519usd731r1@4ax.com>
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:34:05 -0400, "Matt Garrish"
<matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
><Fred@fred.net> wrote in message
>news:cerok1le6494j7ng0timchruc2bau839pi@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:17:51 -0400, "Matt Garrish"
>> <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><Fred@fred.net> wrote in message
>>>news:8qtlk1ls7mt7rn8n1oof5shfus7igkkld9@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> The "old-timers" and other flame prone morons always love to opine:
>>>> RTFM
>>>>
>>>> Meaning "read the fucking manual".
>>>>
>>>> Now, when you hear that from someone, it means they are useless.
>>>> And you can try and kill file or anything else....
>>>> (efBi)
>>>>
>>>> The reason I post thusly: I was helping a new programmer
>>>> at work get used to perl. But I had to laugh when we found
>>>> this gem in the hallowed "docs";
>>>> looking for info on push() we find this helpful entry in
>>>> the help files:
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'm still trying to determine what I find most frightening about this
>>>post:
>>>that you were hired as a programmer, that you are teaching someone else or
>>>that you had to look up the push function and still couldn't understand
>>>it.
>>>
>>>It's too bad that you've chosen to be a prick than rather contribute
>>>anything useful. I hope the google archives serve you well...
>>
>> Not only me. The google archives serve us all.
>>
>
>I see simple things go over your head. Since you don't understand the
>implication: it'll be your only source of help as your welcome here wore out
>long ago.
I was never welcome. There is a pathetic implication that "I'll be
sorry one day." -- hint my name isn't Fred. Although 'Fred' itself is
a fine name, notwithstanding the notion it must legitimized by the
proper from "Frederick". That aside, I think you regard these
gigabytes of raw text, and the shadowy retention thereof, some sort of
'record' or 'score card' whereas I regard it as ammunition and
sometimes entertainment!
;)
>
>> See how you reveal your ignorance? As if
>> "that you were hired as a programmer" should be a valid consideration
>> based on this post.
>
>I wouldn't hire someone who can't look up a simple function and use it.
Exaggeration. Me neither. I was introducing someone to an IDE, as well
as to perl.
>I wouldn't want someone who can't look up a simple function teaching anyone
>else how to program. Had you picked one of the more esoteric commands to
>complain about (like someone with pack not too long ago), you might have
>found a sympathetic ear.
You misunderstand, sympathy was never the goal.
> Instead, you chose to rant about a perfectly
>obvious and clearly documented function.
>
>I'm happy you think you're getting your revenge on usenet and all the
>horrible people who flame you, but I would suggest picking your targets
>better in the future.
>
>Matt
>
Hunting seems fine here. Bang.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 8518
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