[24794] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6947 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Sep 2 14:06:10 2004
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 2 Sep 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6947
Today's topics:
Re: Assistance parsing text file using Text::CSV_XS <domenico_discepola@quadrachemicals.com>
Re: Assistance parsing text file using Text::CSV_XS <domenico_discepola@quadrachemicals.com>
Re: C<sub'a>? <Juha.Laiho@iki.fi>
Re: C<sub'a>? <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: C<sub'a>? <pinyaj@rpi.edu>
Re: Complex Records help (Traveller2003)
Re: How to emit signals in Glib::Object derived modules <newsgroups@debain.org>
Module::Install questions <newspost@coppit.org>
New to perl (Gus)
Re: New to perl <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: New to perl <dwall@fastmail.fm>
Re: NEWBIE CGI HELP::Can I verify a user has logged on <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Re: OS/2 port of Perl 5.8 not adding CR to \n <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: problems with MIME:Lite timeout (dan baker)
Re: q about MIME:Lite and using Bcc (dan baker)
Re: q about MIME:Lite and using Bcc <noreply@gunnar.cc>
RE-Redirecting STDOUT aisarosenbaum@yahoo.com
X-File with cgi variables and Net::NIS (V?ktu Pons i Colomer)
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <lynn@garlic.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <lynn@garlic.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <roo@try-removing-this.darkboong.demon.co.uk>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <lynn@garlic.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <lynn@garlic.com>
Re: YOU ALL SUCK! <squirrel@WPI.EDU>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:43:28 -0400
From: "Domenico Discepola" <domenico_discepola@quadrachemicals.com>
Subject: Re: Assistance parsing text file using Text::CSV_XS
Message-Id: <caHZc.57788$vO1.311983@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
> > OP only mentions embedded record separators, not field separators, so
> > this should work.
>
> I see a reference to an 'eol' character in CSV_XS, but it's apparently
> only for output--not reading.
>
Yes, the 'eol' attribute is what confused me into thinking I can use this
module.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:55:43 -0400
From: "Domenico Discepola" <domenico_discepola@quadrachemicals.com>
Subject: Re: Assistance parsing text file using Text::CSV_XS
Message-Id: <HlHZc.57791$vO1.312010@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
"Tad McClellan" <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrncjbqsa.5oh.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com...
> Domenico Discepola <domenico_discepola@quadrachemicals.com> wrote:
>
> We need the data as well as the code if we are to be able
> to test the code...
>
> > "Records" are
> > separated with a "\x0c" (FF). My fields can contain embedded CRLF's
hence
> > the need for double-quoting.
> ... if I had data to run it against I could try it and see.
>
> But I don't, so I can't. (hint)
I will reproduce the data here but because there exists embedded binary
characters, I can only "simulate" them:
begin sample data file
"field 1: value1"\n"field 2: value2a\nvalue2b"\n"field 3: value3"\n\x0c
"field 4: value 4"\n"field 5: value5"\n\x0c
end sample data file
This data was exported from a Lotus Notes database using the structured text
format. Note that each "record" can contain different "fields" (as is shown
in the sample data).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 17:07:03 GMT
From: Juha Laiho <Juha.Laiho@iki.fi>
Subject: Re: C<sub'a>?
Message-Id: <ch7jni$b9v$1@ichaos.ichaos-int>
Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> said:
>A friend of mine has just written his first japh. A thing that I
>couldn't understand at first[*], and that continued puzzling for quite
>a while is a small fragment of code along the lines of
>
> sub'a{that does something}
Ok...
>At first I was surprised that such a beast did even parse,
"Me too!"
>but now I'm highly confident I've understood why it does, although not
>*completely* sure...
>
>Well, here it comes: in earlier versions of perl you used e.g.
>C<<$pkg'var>> instead of C<<$pkg::var>>, and that syntax is still
>supported for backwards compatibility, so
>
> sub'a
>
>should be equivalent to
>
> sub ::a # a.k.a. main::a
Something akin to that would've been my guess as well - but the truth
seems different. Check what you get from the perl parser for each
of these:
perl -MO=Deparse -e "sub'a{9} print a;"
perl -MO=Deparse -e "sub::a{9} print a;"
The outputs are different, and I don't claim to understand each of them
properly (or, I do understand the output of the first one, but don't
understand how the parser ended up with that result); the second one I
don't understand as code - and even less as the parsing result.
--
Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland
(GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V
PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h---- r+++ y++++
"...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:34:48 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: C<sub'a>?
Message-Id: <slrncjemdo.cmf.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Juha Laiho <Juha.Laiho@iki.fi> wrote:
> Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> said:
>>A friend of mine has just written his first japh. A thing that I
>>couldn't understand at first[*], and that continued puzzling for quite
>>a while is a small fragment of code along the lines of
>>
>> sub'a{that does something}
That is just the sub's definition, it doesn't really "do something"
until you _call_ that subroutine.
>>At first I was surprised that such a beast did even parse,
>>Well, here it comes: in earlier versions of perl you used e.g.
>>C<<$pkg'var>> instead of C<<$pkg::var>>, and that syntax is still
>>supported for backwards compatibility, so
>>
>> sub'a
>>
>>should be equivalent to
>>
>> sub ::a # a.k.a. main::a
>
> Something akin to that would've been my guess as well - but the truth
> seems different.
No it doesn't, see below.
> Check what you get from the perl parser for each
> of these:
> perl -MO=Deparse -e "sub'a{9} print a;"
There is the "base case".
> perl -MO=Deparse -e "sub::a{9} print a;"
s/sub'a/sub ::a/ would be
perl -MO=Deparse -e "sub ::a{9} print a;"
which makes the "base case" output.
Without the space, that is not the "sub" keyword but a package named "sub".
s/sub'a/main::a/ would be
perl -MO=Deparse -e "main::a{9} print a;"
makes weird output, as it should, since there is no "sub" keyword there.
perl -MO=Deparse -e "sub main::a{9} print a;"
back to "base case" output again.
> The outputs are different, and I don't claim to understand each of them
> properly (or, I do understand the output of the first one, but don't
> understand how the parser ended up with that result);
It defaulted to using the "main" package.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:47:15 -0400
From: Jeff 'japhy' Pinyan <pinyaj@rpi.edu>
Subject: Re: C<sub'a>?
Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.96.1040902134545.559128A-100000@vcmr-64.server.rpi.edu>
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Tad McClellan wrote:
>> The outputs are different, and I don't claim to understand each of them
>> properly (or, I do understand the output of the first one, but don't
>> understand how the parser ended up with that result);
>
>It defaulted to using the "main" package.
What is baffling her, Tad, is that
sub'name { ... }
is being seen as
sub ::name { ... }
instead of
sub::name { ... }
The question is *why* does the ' package separator in this case not act as
the :: package separator.
--
Jeff "japhy" Pinyan % How can we ever be the sold short or
RPI Acacia Brother #734 % the cheated, we who for every service
Senior Dean, Fall 2004 % have long ago been overpaid?
RPI Corporation Secretary %
http://japhy.perlmonk.org/ % -- Meister Eckhart
------------------------------
Date: 2 Sep 2004 08:47:38 -0700
From: vavavoom_th14@yahoo.co.uk (Traveller2003)
Subject: Re: Complex Records help
Message-Id: <6e21e513.0409020747.1310d98c@posting.google.com>
Thanks all for the Help. Much appericated.
Traveller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:18:24 +0200
From: Samuel Abels <newsgroups@debain.org>
Subject: Re: How to emit signals in Glib::Object derived modules?
Message-Id: <pan.2004.09.02.17.18.24.79371@debain.org>
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:13:47 +0000, Anno Siegel wrote:
> I don't know any specifics, but this will come to late for "use" to
> see it. Put a BEGIN block around the @ISA assignment and try again.
Thanks for the answer, but this:
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-perl-list/2004-September/msg00002.html
was the problem. It works now.
Thanks,
-Samuel
--
------------------------------------------------------
| Samuel Abels | http://www.debain.org |
| spam ad debain dod org | knipknap ad jabber dod org |
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:59:36 GMT
From: David Coppit <newspost@coppit.org>
Subject: Module::Install questions
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.4.60.0409021259240.75392@www.provisio.net>
I'm trying to move to Module::Install, and have a couple questions I was
hoping someone could help me with:
- What is the equivalent of MakeMaker's DIRS? PM? EXE_FILES? I'd like to
*not* install certain modules and scripts.
- Will Module::Install do the right thing if the user specifies PREFIX or
INSTALLDIRS on the command line? e.g. "perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/foo"
- If I have code I use in several makefiles in different distributions, I
should make an extension, right? For example, I have code that finds a
binary program, checks its version, and then prompts the user to choose
the program to use. (e.g. "Give me a path to GNU grep [/usr/bin/grep]:")
Thanks!
David
_____________________________________________________________________
David Coppit david@coppit.org
The College of William and Mary http://coppit.org/
"Use 'logout' to leave this shell" -- You know what I want. Just do it!
------------------------------
Date: 2 Sep 2004 09:22:41 -0700
From: gmestousis@yahoo.com (Gus)
Subject: New to perl
Message-Id: <e7bef82a.0409020822.43ccd9a7@posting.google.com>
What would the syntax be for the follwing?
I want to cat /admin/log/fileA, and grep any lines that have the name
"joe", then send the output to /admin/log/fileB. Then I want to view
/admin/log/fileB
I want to cat /admin/log/fileA, and grep any lines that have today's
dat in them, then send that output to /admin/log/fileC. Then I want to
view that file.
New to perl ... thanks for the help.
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:38:11 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: New to perl
Message-Id: <2pp1c5Fngd54U2@uni-berlin.de>
Gus wrote:
<snip>
> New to perl ... thanks for the help.
http://learn.perl.org/
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 17:39:31 -0000
From: "David K. Wall" <dwall@fastmail.fm>
Subject: Re: New to perl
Message-Id: <Xns95588AF19DE1Ddkwwashere@216.168.3.30>
Gus <gmestousis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
<news:e7bef82a.0409020822.43ccd9a7@posting.google.com>:
> I want to cat /admin/log/fileA, and grep any lines that have the
> name "joe", then send the output to /admin/log/fileB. Then I want
> to view /admin/log/fileB
Why use Perl for this when you have other tools to make it easy?
grep "joe" /admin/log/fileA | tee /admin/log/fileB | less
I don't know why you need to save the grepped stuff to fileB, but tee
will do it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:29:14 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: NEWBIE CGI HELP::Can I verify a user has logged on
Message-Id: <airh02-055.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net>:
> joe slash blow wrote:
>
> > Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:<tJOdnd5-Re0ZCK7cRVn-gA@comcast.com>...
> >> joe slash blow wrote:
> >>
> >> > I have very basic Perl knowledge and inherited a script for work.
> >> > If the user inputs a specific 4 character code in one of 3 places on a
> >> > web page, I have to verify that the user has logged onto an NT domain
> >> > account before I let them go to the next html page. If they don't use
> >> > the 4 character code they can go on unchecked.
> >> > I don't want them to have to log on to the perl page, just verify that
> >> > they are logged onto the system.
> >> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >> >
> >> Er, how do you determine which NT user he's supposed to be? Does the
> >> four character code ID him? Can you determine it from his IP address?
> >
> > All users will be logged onto a work computer connected to the domain.
>
> Yes, but how does that tell the *webserver* anything? The webserver
> doesn't know anything other than the user's IP
...from which you should be able to use Win32 net admin stuff to figure
out who is logged on to that machine at the moment. Alternatively, you
could ask for NTLM HTTP authentication, which will probably
automatically authenticate as whoever is currently logged on; but this
is OT and should be asked in an HTTP or a MS group.
Ben
--
We do not stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing.
ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:33:48 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of Perl 5.8 not adding CR to \n
Message-Id: <ch7lhs$2ll6$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
<spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>], who wrote in article <413666d6$4$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>:
> Then is <http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/I/IL/ILYAZ/os2/582+/> the most
> recent stable build for OS/2?
"Stable" does not makes sense for builds - they do not change under
your foot. The most recent is one done by you 3 secs ago - but maybe
in these 3 secs somebody else beat you for it...
> > perl -we "%ENV=(); system $^X, @ARGV" -- -e "print qq(a\nb\n)"
>
> That works. I didn't need to double the %, and doing so causes an
> error message.
Looking at your `perl -V', I suspect that just
perl -we "print qq(a\nb\n)"
will do the same, no playing with %ENV is necessary...
> I've played around with the failing program, and have a somewhat
> shoreter test case.
People who want other people to spend their time helping them (if you
can parse it ;-) usually try to show they are at the end of their
rope. Definitely you could make it shorter than this...
And again, it does not make sense posting a "piece" of code. Did not
you see it?
Hope this helps,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: 2 Sep 2004 08:42:27 -0700
From: botfood@yahoo.com (dan baker)
Subject: Re: problems with MIME:Lite timeout
Message-Id: <13685ef8.0409020742.36c754de@posting.google.com>
botfood@yahoo.com (dan baker) wrote in message news:<13685ef8.0408301233.4b5e369f@posting.google.com>...
> I am trying to build a simple little script using MIME:Lite to run
> through about 200 email addresses and send a simple text message. I
> seem to be having a problem with a timeout as it gets though 5 or ten
> addresses and then quits with the message:
> Failed to connect to mail server: Bad file descriptor
> -----------------------------
I just wanted to post the working solution in case somebody looks
later....
Turns out that with the metering done by Comcast (my ISP), you can
only send a max of 20 messages per minute, and a max of 1000 per day.
Not really unlimited email now, is it?! Anyway, it turns out that to
get the script to chew through my little list I did NOT need to send a
Hello first, and in fact the connection gets dropped after about 30
seconds regardless.
So.... the way to do it is to forget the hello up front, and specify
the smtp server with each send, and sleep(4) between each address.
Inside the loop:
foreach $Recipient (@RList){
$msg = '';
$msg = MIME::Lite->new(
From => $Sender ,
To => $Recipient ,
Subject => $Subject ,
Type => $Type ,
Data => $Body
);
$msg->send('smtp', $cSMTPserver) ;
sleep(4);
}
------------------------------
Date: 2 Sep 2004 08:34:37 -0700
From: botfood@yahoo.com (dan baker)
Subject: Re: q about MIME:Lite and using Bcc
Message-Id: <13685ef8.0409020734.385b12b4@posting.google.com>
"David K. Wall" <dwall@fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:<Xns9558AB258378dkwwashere@216.168.3.30>...
> botfood@yahoo.com (dan baker) wrote:
>
> > I have been trying all kinds of ways to add Bcc recipients to email
> > generated with MIME:Lite on a windows 98 pre-compiled install from
> > ActiveState and sent via SMTP. The version says it is $Id: Lite.pm,v
> > 2.102 2000/08/15 01:32:50 eryq Exp $
> >
> > does anyone have an example,
> There are a number of examples in the docs for MIME::Lite.
> --------
I realize that, and the examples indicate this should work... which is
why I am asking for confirmation specifically from anyone who has
tested it or has a working example using this version of Lite from
ActiveState on win98.
> > or can you verify that bcc does indeed
> > work with this version on this platform?
>
> Sorry, I don't have win98 available.
--------
I have a feeling it may be a version/platform-specific bug.... and am
looking for confirmation. I wont help me to know it works on *NIX
>
> > this should work: ???
> > $msg = MIME::Lite->new(
> > From => $Sender ,
> > To => $Recipient ,
> > Bcc => 'test1@mydomain.com,test2@mydomain.com' ,
> > Subject => $Subject ,
> > Type => $Type ,
> > Data => $Body
> > );
>
> That piece of the program looks OK. What happened when you tried it?
> Perhaps you could post a short but *complete* program that exhibits the
> problem you're having, the expected output and the actual output, then
> maybe we could help.
------------
the only othe rline of source that matters is the send() line which
is:
$msg->send('smtp', $cSMTPserver);
what happens is that the To recipient gets a message, and the Bcc
recipient gets nothing. I get no error, no bounceback, no nothing....
d
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:35:58 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: q about MIME:Lite and using Bcc
Message-Id: <2pp180Fngd54U1@uni-berlin.de>
dan baker wrote:
> what happens is that the To recipient gets a message, and the Bcc
> recipient gets nothing. I get no error, no bounceback, no
> nothing....
Can it possibly be another of Comcast's actions against spammers?
Maybe they have simply disabled their mail servers' ability to relay
to Bcc recipients.
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: 2 Sep 2004 10:24:19 -0700
From: aisarosenbaum@yahoo.com
Subject: RE-Redirecting STDOUT
Message-Id: <e3394f73.0409020924.300957e9@posting.google.com>
No I'm not a stuttering typist. ;^)
I'm in the pecular position of working in an environment in which
STDOUT has been rudely redirected by a script (A) that runs my
scripts (B). I want to take STDOUT back without knowing the
handle to which it was redirected. I've found a lot of advise
on redirecting STDOUT, but I need to re-redirect it back to the
console from 'B' without hacking 'A'.
(This is on Solaris)
Any ideas?
Aisa
------------------------------
Date: 2 Sep 2004 10:28:34 -0700
From: viktu@grn.es (V?ktu Pons i Colomer)
Subject: X-File with cgi variables and Net::NIS
Message-Id: <5118cb20.0409020928.1189df31@posting.google.com>
Hi all, I've searching for a solution for that but no luck, so I'm in
the need of asking :(
I've this piece of code:
elsif ($operacio eq 'AfegirUid'){
tie %hash, 'Net::NIS','passwd','domain.com' or die "Can't tie
passwd: $yperr\n";
warn "---$memberUid---","\n";
my $valor = $hash{$memberUid};
if (defined($valor)) {
$memberUid is passed as a cgi parameter with:
my $memberUid=$q->param(memberUid);
The problem is that this code is broken with this error:
---francescf---
Unable to find 'francescf' in passwd.byname. Reason: args to yp
function are bad at /dev/fd/5 line 174
As you may have noticed, the value for $memberUid is francescf
But if I do that:
elsif ($operacio eq 'AfegirUid'){
tie %hash, 'Net::NIS','passwd','domain.com' or die "Can't tie
passwd: $yperr\n";
$memberUid="francescf";
warn "---$memberUid---","\n";
my $valor = $hash{$memberUid};
if (defined($valor)) {
it prints the same in the log, ---francescf---, but it works and give
no error!!!
Can't see the diference between the two codes, because $memberUid is
well filled with the parameter...
Any help will be appreciated! Thanks a lot in advance!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:43:59 -0600
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <uhdqgekw0.fsf@mail.comcast.net>
joe@invalid.address writes:
> http://www.zippythepinhead.com/
>
> If you're runnning emacs, you can get a quote from him with M-X yow
>
> Not exactly a typical editor function, agreed. I was feeling a little
> whimsical at the time.
i once did a random email/usenet signature with zippy/yow ... but i
added two other files to it ... and then i had to fix a feature in
yow. yow uses a 16bit random number to index a yow file ... it was ok
as long as your sayings file was less than 64kbytes. i had to modify
yow to handle files larger than 64kbytes ... the "sayings" file used
for 6670 separater pages was 167k bytes and the jargon file was 413k
bytes ... while a current zippy yow file is 52,800 bytes.
recent reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#48 Random signatures
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:55:45 -0600
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <ud614ekce.fsf@mail.comcast.net>
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
> And everybody seems to think that those people never talked to each
> other. Even boasting about whose is bigger, faster, and longer
> would transmit new ideas among the bit setters.
and some of them worked jointly/together on ctss ... before some of
them going to multics on the 5th floor and others going to the science
center on the 4th floor. also the north half of 1st floor, 545 tech sq
had a lunch room on the east side and a lounge on the west side
... and if nothing else ... people ran into each other there.
then there is melinda's vm history which has a lot of the ctss, multics,
cp/cms early lore .... current copy at:
http://pucc.princeton.edu/~melinda/
a much earlier version was posted to vmshare computer conference in
eight parts and can be found at the vmshare archive site:
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST01&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST02&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST03&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST04&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST05&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST06&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST07&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST08&ft=NOTE
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 17:03:21 +0100
From: Rupert Pigott <roo@try-removing-this.darkboong.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <1094141001.125507@teapot.planet.gong>
John Thingstad wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 08:35:30 GMT, Brian Inglis
> <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:26:03 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, "John W.
>> Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Andre Majorel wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2004-08-31, Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:12:55 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers,
>>>>> Andre Majorel <amajorel@teezer.fr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2004-08-30, Antony Sequeira <usemyfullname@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Windows (MS) is not 'Unixism'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If by unixism, you mean any operating system that has a
>>>>>> hierarchical filesystem and byte stream files, yes. But that
>>>>>> would include quite a few other non-Unix operating systems,
>>>>>> including Mac OS 9, Prologue and probably everything else this
>>>>>> side of CP/M (DOS 1.x shall be deemed to be CP/M).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> DOS 2.x+ shall be deemed to be CP/M+!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wasn't it in version 2 that they added directories and
>>>> Unix-style file handles ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, and also a single-process pipe emulator. Ever since 2.0, MS has
>>> been trying to turn MS-DOS (later, Windows) into a Unix clone.
>>
>>
>> MS has been borrowing code from Unix to create a real OS: TCP/IP;
>> NTFS<-ffs; memory mapped files<-mmap.
>> Shame they keep trying to add their own ideas in too: that must be
>> what causes the crashes!
>>
>
> You seeem misinformed.
> Microsoft swallowed up a team from DEC.
> The were developing a operating system called PRISM.
> When the project was cancelled they quit DEC in protest.
> These peaple had more than a 100 years of experience in developing
> muliuser /
> mutitasking operating systems between them. The fact that the NT kernel
> is not
> entirely stable yet really shouldn't supprise anyone. Afterall Unix has
> messed with
> it's kernel for 30 years. But the modular arcitecture and the
> microkernel are new ideas in
> OS design and should in time lead to a more extensible OS than unix.
uKernels are *NOT* a new idea at all. They weren't a new idea when
NT was unleashed on the world. What people think of as "NT" is a big
pile of shite that obscures the uKernel. Since the graphics stuff
got put into ring 0 I think that you could legitimately claim that
BSD Unix is more of a micro kernel than NT. :)
> (Unix tradionally has a spagetti of intercalling function calls as a
> kernel.)
Remember NeXTStep ?
> As for following standards thats just plain sense.
> Note the Mac OS 10 / Darwin uses a unix kernel because of all the
> problems with
> interoperabillity OS 9 had with talking to Windows and Unix boxes.
Which I believe is derived from a Mach uKernel... The "UNIX" bits
are the FreeBSD userland utilities that surround it.
Cheers,
Rupert
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:13:28 -0600
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <u4qmgwswn.fsf@mail.comcast.net>
Rupert Pigott <roo@try-removing-this.darkboong.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Remember NeXTStep ?
>
>> As for following standards thats just plain sense.
>> Note the Mac OS 10 / Darwin uses a unix kernel because of all the
>> problems with
>> interoperabillity OS 9 had with talking to Windows and Unix boxes.
>
> Which I believe is derived from a Mach uKernel... The "UNIX" bits
> are the FreeBSD userland utilities that surround it.
a cmu effort along with various andrew activities and camelot ... minor
recent ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#42 Interesting read about upcoming K9 processors
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 10:19:23 -0600
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <uzn48ve2c.fsf@mail.comcast.net>
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
> And everybody seems to think that those people never talked to each
> other. Even boasting about whose is bigger, faster, and longer
> would transmit new ideas among the bit setters.
some number were co-workers on ctss before some went to 5th floor and
multics and others went to science center on the 4th floor. north
side of 545 tech sq 1st floor had lunch room on the east side and
lounge on west side; besides running into people in the elevator
... there were coffee breaks and lunch in the lunch room and after
work in the lounge.
melinda, on her site has historical write up with some early ctss,
multics, cp/cms lore:
http://pucc.princeton.edu/~melinda/
an earlier version was posted in eight parts to vmshare computer
conferencing ... vmshare archive:
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST01&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST02&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST03&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST04&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST05&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST06&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST07&ft=NOTE
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse?fn=VMHIST07&ft=NOTE
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:54:00 -0400
From: Christopher T King <squirrel@WPI.EDU>
Subject: Re: YOU ALL SUCK!
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0409021151340.30960-100000@ccc8.wpi.edu>
On 2 Sep 2004, Carl Scharenberg wrote:
> > This seems to be of somewhat better quality than the output of the typical
> > random-text generator. Can anyone suggest something on CPAN useful for
> > such?
>
> You can do this by analyzing a sample text at a higher level. Instead
> of generating text from the frequency of single letters, you generate
> using the frequencies of 2, 3, or 4-letter sequences.
Whole words work well too (given a large enough corpus).
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 6947
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