[23859] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6062 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Feb 1 09:10:32 2004
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 06:10:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 1 Feb 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6062
Today's topics:
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers (Jay Tilton)
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Perl, Python, and Ruby <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: print matching elements of a list <kj345@lycos.com>
Re: print matching elements of a list <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Upgrading <nospam@gobotherverisign.com>
Re: Upgrading <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:08:17 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <le4Tb.5157$jH6.513@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Robert" <bobx@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:C7GdnX7iicvLuYHdRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
> It is insane not to use the ActiveState MSI installer.
>
> Get the book:
>
> Elements of Programming with Perl
> Andrew L. Johnson
> October 1999
>
Thanks. I will make a note of that if I decide to stay with Perl.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:14:27 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <7k4Tb.5160$jH6.969@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"David K. Wall" <dwall@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:Xns9481978B1775Bdkwwashere@216.168.3.30...
> "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
> I don't consider myself an expert at programming or Perl, but even so I
can
> see numerous incorrect, incomplete, and misleading statements on that
page.
>
Those short sections of code are what is important at my Web site. I have
Perl up and running. It is possible that some errors might have gotten into
those codes during copy operations. But I ran each of them on my own
computer. And they all appeared to work fine.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:17:34 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <2n4Tb.5161$jH6.3915@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:t8XSb.7838$qU3.741637@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> > %abbrev = (
> > MB => 'megabytes',
> > Mb => 'megabits',
I used Meg. at my Web site so that my colleagues in science who don't know a
bit from a byte would understand the information. They know that Meg.
probably refers to a million of something.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:24:16 GMT
From: tiltonj@erols.com (Jay Tilton)
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <401cd09f.34067135@news.erols.com>
"edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: This is the purpose of that Web page:
Stating the document's purpose up front is very good.
In its current state, the document's purpose is difficult to identify.
In places it looks like a partial synopsis of existing Perl
documentation. In other places it looks like a Perl tutorial. In still
other places it looks like a Windows primer.
Choose your focus before writing, and explicitly state that focus in the
simplest, most boring terms.
The purpose of this document is [purpose].
This document is intended for [audience description].
The reader of this document is expected to know [prerequisites].
This document does not cover [list of stuff outside its scope].
With that done, you will more easily recognize when you have wandered
off course.
: Perhaps 99% of the people around the world who might have a use for a Perl
: program cannot use it because something in the code they generate will
: produce an error which stops the program from running. They cannot
: determine what is wrong, get frustrated, and switch to some other language.
This is bad. You've already jumped track from stating the document's
purpose into finding reasons to justify its existence.
: My Web page is not meant to teach people how to use Perl.
This is good, but say what the document is about before saying what it
is not about.
: It simply states
: that if you want to write a simple program which will do something like
: multiply two numbers together and store the result in a text file then here
: is how to do it.
Eh. That really belongs in an introductory section.
: It is like a "cookbook" for creating simple Perl programs.
There we go. That's the document's purpose. Now you just need to keep
it in mind while writing the rest.
If you're really considering writing it as a cookbook, you might like to
adopt the style of _Perl Cookbook_ by Christiansen and Torkington:
1. Very simply state the problem to be solved.
2. Give some code the solves the problem.
3. Discuss the nuts and bolts of the solution, possibly suggesting
alternative solutions.
4. List references to appropriate Perl documentation.
But I'm not so sure you really want a cookbook approach. What you have
written reads almost like a journal.
: Finally, remember that my Web page is just a first version. Information is
: being stored there as I learn it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That also suggests a journal. Maintaining it as a chronological journal
of your explorations would be a unique approach to instructing others.
After all, if you found yourself stumbling over some arcane bit of
syntax, other novices will probably stumble as well. They might
appreciate seeing the language untangled one piece at a time through the
eyes of a fellow novice. The problem/solution/discussion style outlined
above would also work well in a journal context.
Your enthusiasm for the language is admirable, as well as your ability
to stay level-headed during these discussions. Your desire to share
that enthusiasm with colleagues is good, but you need to deliberately
choose a purpose and style for your writing.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:03:34 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <GO6Tb.5255$jH6.2543@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Jay Tilton" <tiltonj@erols.com> wrote in message
news:401cd09f.34067135@news.erols.com...
> "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
I am not going to disagree with much of what you said in your note. But you
have to look at things from my perspective.
It appears that I am near the center of an informal effort to get a variety
of international earthquake forecasting procedures coordinated. Just a few
hours ago I finished having the documentation for a novel procedure
translated from Spanish to English and will now format it and start
circulating that report. You can see quite a few of those other forecasting
programs listed at my Web site on the following page:
http://www.freewebz.com/eq-forecasting/141.html
For some reason the international picture regarding this type of research is
in my opinion largely chaotic. And one of the goals in order to get things
more organized is to get people equipped with better or at least consistent
computer programs. Generally with my Web site pages I have time to prepare
them and check them for spelling and to see that the sentence structure is
reasonable. There is not too much time available to organize them much
better than that. However, things do gradually improve with time. And I
expect that that Perl page will either improve or disappear if I choose a
different language. Also as I said in another note, the information on the
page should already be adequate for the other scientists and researchers
with whom I communicate.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:34:00 +0100
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <r7ks10hrpflo68ir4b3tevemoag90a9elp@4ax.com>
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:28:02 +0000 (UTC), Ben Morrow
<usenet@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>this. Multiplying two numbers together and storing the result in a
>text file is not useful: I can do it quicker with a calculator and
>Notepad than I can with Perl.
<OT>
But when I do not have a calculator I often do it with Perl on the
bash cmd line, notwithstanding the many alternatives that there could
be. Including bash itself...
Just too Perl-addict!
;-)
</OT>
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -lp
BEGIN{*ARGV=do{open $_,q,<,,\$/;$_}}s z^z seek DATA,11,$[;($,
=ucfirst<DATA>)=~s x .*x q^~ZEX69l^^q,^2$;][@,xe.$, zex,s e1e
q 1~BEER XX1^q~4761rA67thb ~eex ,s aba m,P..,,substr$&,$.,age
__END__
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:34:01 +0100
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <k94r105o3g0oefu34ieemtvuh7vg5tulte@4ax.com>
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:15:56 -0500, "Matt Garrish"
<matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> for free and then installed. The Windows 5.8.2 AS package which I myself
>> downloaded was about 12 million bytes in size (12 Meg).
>btw: Mb is the proper abbreviation, not Meg...
And BTW (for the OP!): A Mb is *not* a "million bytes"!
Michele
--
you'll see that it shouldn't be so. AND, the writting as usuall is
fantastic incompetent. To illustrate, i quote:
- Xah Lee trolling on clpmisc,
"perl bug File::Basename and Perl's nature"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:32:03 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Perl, Python, and Ruby
Message-Id: <Ts5Tb.5506$GO6.449@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:X%ZSb.4755$jH6.1953@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:18YSb.4653$jH6.1518@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:qkOSb.4022$jH6.3447@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
I took a look at Python and Ruby Web sites to see what those programs look
like. Perl, Python, and Ruby all look like they could easily handle the
types of data processing that I need to do. If any of them had specific
commands installed for controlling Windows programs and screens then I might
decide to use that program. And this coming week I am planning to try to
determine if there are actually routines like that which I did not see in my
first check of the Python and Ruby documentation.
I checked again and found several Inkey modules at Cpan. I don't how I
missed them with my last search. And at the moment, for a number of reasons
I am still leaning towards going with Perl.
In my opinion this effort is quite important. For example, last December 22
we had an earthquake in California, USA which claimed several lives. And
one on December 26 in Iran appears to have claimed more than 40,000 lives.
I myself began circulating international earthquake warnings around November
10, 2003. And I believe that my forecasting procedure did an excellent job
of pointing to where that California earthquake could occur. I am still
evaluating my data regarding that Iran earthquake. That is because my
present data processing programs are so slow and limited. However I
do feel that they work. And its time to make the change to a more powerful
programming language.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:14:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: kj <kj345@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: print matching elements of a list
Message-Id: <bviu2p$lqa$1@reader2.panix.com>
In <bvhijc$41o$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) writes:
>If it is equality, then
>perldoc -q "How can I tell whether a certain element is contained in a list or array?
>for a discussion of several techniques from the perl faq.
I'm interested in this FAQ, but when I tried the query above I got
No documentation for perl FAQ keyword `How can I tell whether a certain element is contained in a list or array?' found
I tried truncating the string in obvious ways, in the hope that
one of the substrings would lead to the FAQ, but no dice. Any
other keywords I can use instead?
kj
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:56:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: print matching elements of a list
Message-Id: <bvj0hh$gg0$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
kj <kj345@lycos.com> wrote:
> In <bvhijc$41o$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
> roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) writes:
> >If it is equality, then
>
> >perldoc -q "How can I tell whether a certain element is contained
> >in a list or array?
>
> >for a discussion of several techniques from the perl faq.
>
> I'm interested in this FAQ, but when I tried the query above I got
>
> No documentation for perl FAQ keyword `How can I tell whether a
> certain element is contained in a list or array?' found
>
> I tried truncating the string in obvious ways, in the hope that
> one of the substrings would lead to the FAQ, but no dice. Any
> other keywords I can use instead?
It should be in perlfaq4, and should come up with perldoc -q
contained. If it doesn't, take a look at perlfaq4 on
http://www.perldoc.com/.
Ben
--
And if you wanna make sense / Whatcha looking at me for? (Fiona Apple)
* ben@morrow.me.uk *
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:49:19 +0100
From: "Pete" <nospam@gobotherverisign.com>
Subject: Upgrading
Message-Id: <jMOdnQ9u-a3kPIHdRVn-ug@giganews.com>
Hello,
If I want to upgrade from Perl 5.8.0 to 5.8.2_2, will I have to
recompile/reinstall everything based on xs? I rather not.
Thanks,
- Pete
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 06:54:55 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Upgrading
Message-Id: <bvi7rv$2rs$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
"Pete" <nospam@gobotherverisign.com> wrote:
> If I want to upgrade from Perl 5.8.0 to 5.8.2_2, will I have to
> recompile/reinstall everything based on xs? I rather not.
No. Binary compatability broke between 5.6 and 5.8, but not between
5.8 versions.
Ben
--
Heracles: Vulture! Here's a titbit for you / A few dried molecules of the gall
From the liver of a friend of yours. / Excuse the arrow but I have no spoon.
(Ted Hughes, [ Heracles shoots Vulture with arrow. Vulture bursts into ]
/Alcestis/) [ flame, and falls out of sight. ] ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 6062
***************************************
