[23858] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6061 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Feb 1 09:05:36 2004
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 06:05:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 1 Feb 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6061
Today's topics:
Re: Clarifications <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: Clarifications (Sumit Garg)
Re: Clarifications <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Clarifications <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Clarifications <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Emacs modules for Perl programming (Jari Aalto+mail.perl)
Re: Historical <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Re: Historical <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Historical <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Historical <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Historical <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: how to check for ip address that falls inside a ran <jns@gellyfish.com>
Re: interpreting script <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
ISO lightweight OO-RDBMS in Perl <no-email@please.post.com>
Re: Newbie question. Get list of files in subdir. <drumspoorly@reachone.net>
Re: Newbie question. Get list of files in subdir. <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 00:25:41 -0600
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: Clarifications
Message-Id: <slrnc1p6v5.tnn.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
edgrsprj <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Can it be used for CGI work.
You can use just about _any_ programming language for "CGI work".
Even sh or assembly.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 31 Jan 2004 23:49:44 -0800
From: sumitrect@yahoo.com (Sumit Garg)
Subject: Re: Clarifications
Message-Id: <b2be95ad.0401312349.66cc6abc@posting.google.com>
are there any other advantages of ruby over perl ?
"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message news:<3Q_Sb.19214$gw3.9159529@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
> edgrsprj wrote:
>
> > "Tad McClellan" <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:slrnc1onte.tbq.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com...
> >
> >>edgrsprj <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>Take a pause and see if Python might suit you better.
> >>
> >>Have you evaluated Python for this purpose?
> >>
> >
> >
> > I haven't looked at Python. Can it be used for CGI work. How do you get a
> > version to test?
>
> Actually, a better language for the purpose would probably be Ruby. It
> has modern features at its heart that PERL only added on later, and
> requires less understanding of obscure technical notions to do everyday
> things.
>
> news:comp.lang.ruby
> http://www.ruby-lang.org
>
> There is a nice Ruby-for-Windows all-in-one, including a convenient
> editor and a good textbook, at
> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=67007
> I suggest using ruby180-10, rather than ruby181-11 at present. The
> newer one is only a few days old, and has some packaging problems.
>
> Ruby has a large class library, including CGI and the like. As a
> general rule, Ruby's libraries are more neatly designed than PERL's,
> though not always as solid. (Another result of Ruby being a younger
> language.)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:02:03 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Clarifications
Message-Id: <v84Tb.5152$jH6.4953@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Tad McClellan" <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc1p6v5.tnn.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com...
> edgrsprj <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> You can use just about _any_ programming language for "CGI work".
>
I have looked at a number of Web sites where you can run CGI programs. And
almost all of them say CGI - Perl. I know that some let you run other types
of programs. But Perl seems to be the one which is universally acceptable.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:05:09 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Clarifications
Message-Id: <pb4Tb.5154$jH6.943@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3Q_Sb.19214$gw3.9159529@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> edgrsprj wrote:
>
>
> news:comp.lang.ruby
> http://www.ruby-lang.org
>
> There is a nice Ruby-for-Windows all-in-one, including a convenient
> editor and a good textbook, at
> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=67007
> I suggest using ruby180-10, rather than ruby181-11 at present. The
> newer one is only a few days old, and has some packaging problems.
>
I will give it a look. I have no special attachment to Perl. I simply need
to do an upgrade from the programs I am using right now. And Perl appeared
to be the most promising language.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:08:17 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Clarifications
Message-Id: <le4Tb.5156$jH6.3680@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Keith Keller" <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote in message
news:59phvb.00n.ln@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us...
> >
> > Take a pause and see if Python might suit you better.
> >
I found a Python Web site and will take a look at the information on it.
------------------------------
Date: 01 Feb 2004 08:44:45 GMT
From: <jari.aalto@poboxes.com> (Jari Aalto+mail.perl)
Subject: Emacs modules for Perl programming
Message-Id: <perl-faq/emacs-lisp-modules_1075625008@rtfm.mit.edu>
Archive-name: perl-faq/emacs-lisp-modules
Posting-Frequency: 2 times a month
URL: http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/
Maintainer: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@poboxes.com>
Announcement: "What Emacs lisp modules can help with programming Perl"
Preface
Emacs is your friend if you have to do anything comcerning software
development: It offers plug-in modules, written in Emacs lisp
(elisp) language, that makes all your programmings wishes come
true. Please introduce yourself to Emacs and your programming era
will get a new light.
Where to find Emacs/XEmacs
o Unix:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs.html
http://www.xemacs.org/
o Unix Windows port (for Unix die-hards):
install http://www.cygwin.com/ which includes native Emacs 21.x.
XEmacs port is bundled in XEmacs setup.exe available from
XEmacs site.
o Pure Native Windows port
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html
ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/windows/setup.exe
o More Emacs resources at
http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/ => Emacs resource page
Emacs Perl Modules
Cperl -- Perl programming mode
ftp://ftp.math.ohio-state.edu/pub/users/ilya/perl
http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/misc/emacs/cperl-mode/
<ilya@math.ohio-state.edu> Ilya Zakharevich
CPerl is major mode for editing perl files. Forget the default
`perl-mode' that comes with Emacs, this is much better. Comes
standard in newest Emacs.
TinyPerl -- Perl related utilities
http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/
If you ever wonder how to deal with Perl POD pages or how to find
documentation from all perl manpages, this package is for you.
Couple of keystrokes and all the documentaion is in your hands.
o Instant function help: See documentation of `shift', `pop'...
o Show Perl manual pages in *pod* buffer
o Grep through all Perl manpages (.pod)
o Follow POD references e.g. [perlre] to next pod with RETURN
o Coloured pod pages with `font-lock'
o Separate `tiperl-pod-view-mode' for jumping topics and pages
forward and backward in *pod* buffer.
o Update `$VERSION' variable with YYYY.MMDD on save.
o Load source code into Emacs, like Devel::DProf.pm
o Prepare script (version numbering) and Upload it to PAUSE
o Generate autoload STUBS (Devel::SelfStubber) for you
Perl Module (.pm)
TinyIgrep -- Perl Code browsing and easy grepping
[TinyIgrep is included in Tiny Tools Kit]
To grep from all installed Perl modules, define database to
TinyIgrep. There is example file emacs-rc-tinyigrep.el that shows
how to set up dattabases for Perl5, Perl4 whatever you have
installed
TinyIgrep calls Igrep.el to to do the search, You can adjust
recursive grep options, set search case sensitivity, add user grep
options etc.
You can find latest `igrep.el' module at
<http://groups.google.com/groups?group=gnu.emacs.sources> The
maintainer is Jefin Rodgers <kevinr@ihs.com>.
TinyCompile -- To Browse grep results in Emacs *compile* buffer
TinyCompile is a minor mode for *compile* buffer from where
you can collapse unwanted lines or shorten file URLs:
/asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
/asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/file2:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
-->
cd /asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/
file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
End
------------------------------
Date: 1 Feb 2004 07:58:11 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: Historical
Message-Id: <bvibij$s0e$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach Ben Morrow:
> "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> But with those preliminary instructions people can probably figure
>> out how to do other things such as write subroutines and do sorts
>> etc.
>
> No, they can't. You give no indication of how someone might go about
> this.
As if that would be a problem. There have been consinstently attempts to
establish the holy grail of the Perl tutorial. I learnt it with the help
of a very flimsy introduction that was actually part of an HTML
tutorial. The hints given in that were far worse than those on the OP's
webside. All I had besides that were the perldocs (which a beginner is
very unlikely to understand) and the little chapter on Perl5 in 'Linux
in a Nutshell' (which doesn't even contain any explanations).
Therefore, I didn't have any indication how to go about. 90% of the time
I was using features and functions I didn't understand. But did I care?
Or did it do me any bad? Apparently not.
So why should it harm other people? I am pretty sure that many people
who can claim to have some expertise in Perl nowadays didn't learn it
with the help of a structured and good tutorial but instead picked a
rather chaotic approach.
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:40:26 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Historical
Message-Id: <eQ3Tb.5147$jH6.4532@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Scott Bryce" <sbryce@scottbryce.com> wrote in message
news:101ou12lil8cc5f@corp.supernews.com...
> edgrsprj wrote:
> Considering what you want your programs to do, would Visual BASIC be a
> better choice? You already know BASIC syntax, don't you?
>
I have done some work Visual Basic but for certain reasons like Perl better
at the moment.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:43:32 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Historical
Message-Id: <8T3Tb.5148$jH6.4573@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Walter Roberson" <roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:bvhtrt$8r4$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca...
> In article <X%ZSb.4755$jH6.1953@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
>
> Please look at www.cpan.org at the modules Term::InKey and Term::ReadKey
>
I did check that site a while ago. The ReadKey module looks like it might
work. I did not see one for InKey but will check again. I noticed that
some modules listed there (probably quite a few) are already included with
the Perl download package and I was wondering if there might be one for
reading the keyboard that I have not found yet. It doesn't sound like it.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:52:47 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Historical
Message-Id: <P%3Tb.5149$jH6.3297@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:bvibij$s0e$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE...
> Also sprach Ben Morrow:
>
Something like 5 years ago I had to create a Perl CGI routine to run at this
one Web site. I was familiar with Basic and Fortran but had never even
heard of Perl. And I was concerned that I might create a program which
would get into a loop which would go around and around and never end. The
code actually worked. It allowed people to enter data through a Web page
data entry screen. The data were sent to the CGI program when they hit the
Enter key. Each night at midnight the program started running. It looked
at the data sent to it during the day and checked some additional files and
did some calculations. And it then stored the data in files at the site
which could be viewed by site visitors.
The Perl CGI program ran largely unattended for more than a year at the
site. Happily it never jumped into any endless loops.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:58:57 GMT
From: "edgrsprj" <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Historical
Message-Id: <B54Tb.5151$jH6.1939@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
"Ben Morrow" <usenet@morrow.me.uk> wrote in message
news:bvhso0$pvj$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk...
> Writing something like this *will* *not* *be* *easy*. It requires a
> lot of thought be put into its design, especially as it is for use by
> people who are not very expert. You will never succeed in writing it
> unless you stop trying to teach the world how to use Perl and instead
> *learn it yourself*.
>
> Ben
Hi Ben, I am already doing all of these things with programs involving a
combination of Basic and another ancient program which has the ability to
start and stop both DOS and Windows programs, open Windows screens, switch
between windows, do calculations, take data off the clipboard etc. The
problem is that everything is running too slow or has dimension size
limitations. So, I simply need to find another language which will do what
I am already doing and then translate the programs.
I have to believe that if these ancient programs can do these types of
things then Perl should be able to as well. And it is probably just a
matter of discovering the right commands to use etc.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:46:58 GMT
From: Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: how to check for ip address that falls inside a range.
Message-Id: <mW3Tb.1$391.6380@news.dircon.co.uk>
Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>
> roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) wrote:
>> In article <dfd17ef4.0401291843.9179d79@posting.google.com>,
>> mike <s99999999s2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> :i need to verify if an ip-address falls inside a range for example,
>> :say 10.1.1.1 to 10.1.2.255.
>> :So if a user keys in 10.1.2.2, it should fall inside this range and
>> :then the program can do something.
>>
>> :How can i go about declaring the range, and how can i check the ip
>> :whether it falls inside the range. ?
>>
>> for each of the three IP addresses, split the IP address on '\.',
>> say into @ipd;
>
> Or, better, use Regexp::Common.
>
Or, perhaps not better, the inet_aton() subroutine in Socket.
/J\
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:33:59 +0100
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: interpreting script
Message-Id: <neis109mq9s529o6cjhudqp7d4lf246eab@4ax.com>
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:52:09 +0000 (UTC), Ben Morrow
<usenet@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote:
>> More effective (mind you, though: I'm *not* saying these are the best
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> WTDI) code may be as follows:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Please note that I prepended this caveat!
>> for (grep /\Q_ppsd.zip/ && -M >30,
>
>Err... this is wrong (though perhaps you just don't know what `grep
>-v` does):
I *do* know what -v does. Just missed that switch!
> for (grep { -M > 30 and not /\Q_ppsd.zip/ }
>
>as that expr is quite complicated enough to deserve a block of its
>own (I find '... and not ...' much less confusing than 'not ... and
Fundamentally I agree. To be more precise, *as far as my personal
tastes are concerned*, I would tend to consider this a *limit* case,
in the sense that the expr is indeed complicated enough that it's not
very nice to have in for (...) but not enough to definitely "deserve"
a separate block.
>> <*.downloaded *.kl2_download>) {
>> unlink $_ or
>> warn("Can't remove `$_': $!\n"), next;
>> print "Removing `$_'\n";
>
>Surely the print should come before the unlink? Don't put "\n" on the
Surely not "surely". I don't want to print if the unlink() fails. I
agree that there may be a feeble reason for you saying so, based upon
the choice of the message that *may* have better been "`$_' removed".
But then this doesn't really make a big difference and is not an issue
with perl *code*, I'd say!
>end of warn and die messages: it suppresses the line number info. Set
>$\ rather than put "\n" on the end of every print statement.
I *do* know what "\n" does (with die() and warn()). I use it if I
think it is useful, and I don't use it if I think it is not: simple,
isn't it?
Did you take into account the possibility that the end user of the
program may not be interested in those pieces of info, whereas he
would be content with knowing the file that caused the problem and a
reason why it happened?!?
>If you don't want to print if the unlink fails, I would have written
You got it man!
> unlink ?
> warn "can't unlink '$_': $!" :
> print "removed '$_'";
As usual it's a matter of personal taste: believe me, I like the ?:
operator and find it quite useful, especially when I can use its
return value wich is what I need in most cases. Definitely in this
particular case I would have favoured an if then else structure
construct instead.
>> or perhaps:
>>
>> unlink $_ and
>> !print "Removing `$_'\n" or
>> warn "Can't remove `$_': $!\n" for
>> grep /\Q_ppsd.zip/ && -M >30,
>> <*.downloaded *.kl2_download>
>
>Ouch! What's that ! there for? Assuming the print will always
>succeed, this evaluates as
>
> (unlink and 0) or warn
In fact this is what I want. Pease read more carefully and you'll
discover that...
>which means that the warn will always happen. Even without that, it's
^^^^^^
...it will always happen *if* unlink() succeeds. Won't it?
>; and it could have done with more friendly formatting:
>
>unlink ? print "removed $_" : warn "can't unlink $_: $!"
> for grep { -M > 30 and not /\Q_ppsed.zip/ }
> glob "*.downloaded *.kl2_download";
As of my cmts above, I understand your concernings with the pieces of
code I proposed, especially the actual error (i.e. "ignoring -v"), but
to be fair I don't think this particular proposal of yours is in any
way more readable/terse than mine.
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:31:55 -0000, "David K. Wall"
<dwall@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>I don't like any of the ways you all have written it. :-)
>
> for my $file (glob "*.downloaded *.kl2_download") {
> next unless -M $file > 30 and $file !~ /\Q_ppsed.zip/;
> unlink $file or do {
> warn "Can't unlink '$file': $!";
> next;
> };
> print "Removed '$file'\n";
> }
>
>It's a bit more verbose, but easier (at least for me) to read.
I partially agree. Of course I wrote the code in the previous post as
I would have written it if it were to be included in a program of
mine.
In particular I do not have any problem using an explicit variable in
for cycles, but if the body of the cycle is short enough I prefer to
use the implicit one instead. And in this case I would consider it
short enough.
One thing about your proposal that I really do *not* like is the
(IMHO) unnecessary do block. But that is only MHO...
Michele
--
you'll see that it shouldn't be so. AND, the writting as usuall is
fantastic incompetent. To illustrate, i quote:
- Xah Lee trolling on clpmisc,
"perl bug File::Basename and Perl's nature"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:40:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: kj <no-email@please.post.com>
Subject: ISO lightweight OO-RDBMS in Perl
Message-Id: <bvivl5$m5i$1@reader2.panix.com>
I have 4 or 5 personal coding projects in my to-do list, all of
which feature simple relational databases (e.g. a catalog of TV
show episodes on tape; a catalog of all my books; a catalog of all
my CDs; a catalog of xeroxed/printed journal articles archive;
etc.) Therefore, I'm looking CPAN modules to facilitate the process
of creating, querying, updating, and maintaining *persistent* tables
of Perl objects.
The applications I have in mind have pretty light requirements.
The tables may be relationally linked, so their management should
preserve the integrity of the relational schema. But, they will
interact with a single user at a time; security is not a big issue;
nor is transaction management; performance demands are light, since
no table would be bigger than a few hundred records.
I have run across modules in CPAN (e.g. ObjStore or DB::Objects)
that at first glance seem as though they *may* be suitable to this
task, but I can't tell from the documentation exactly how adequate
they are. Therefore, I would appreciate recommendations from
*users* of modules like what I describe above.
Note: I'm *not* interested in Perl interfaces to standard RDBMSs
like MySQL or Oracle.
Thanks!
kj
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:01:18 -0800
From: Steve May <drumspoorly@reachone.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie question. Get list of files in subdir.
Message-Id: <101p59bjgb2tu38@corp.supernews.com>
Jürgen Exner wrote:
> Dave Hafner wrote:
>
>>How do I read in a list of all the files in a subdirectory?
>
>
> perldoc -f opendir
> perldoc -f readdir
> perldoc -f glob
> perldoc File::Find
>
> jue
>
>
I've never really considered glob reliably portable....
Am I wrong in thinking that?
s.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 06:26:55 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Newbie question. Get list of files in subdir.
Message-Id: <bvi67f$1td$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Steve May <drumspoorly@reachone.net> wrote:
> I've never really considered glob reliably portable....
>
> Am I wrong in thinking that?
Since 5.6.0 when the old implementation of forking a csh(1) was
replaced with File::Glob, it has been entirely portable, module the
caveats mentioned for that module.
Ben
--
Joy and Woe are woven fine,
A Clothing for the Soul divine William Blake
Under every grief and pine 'Auguries of Innocence'
Runs a joy with silken twine. ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 6061
***************************************
