[15873] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3286 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jun 8 03:10:28 2000
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 00:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <960448218-v9-i3286@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 8 Jun 2000 Volume: 9 Number: 3286
Today's topics:
Re: Perl and memory consumption (Honza Pazdziora)
Re: Perl and memory consumption <tony_curtis32@yahoo.com>
Re: Perl and memory consumption <callgirl@la.znet.com>
Re: Perl and memory consumption <jasonb885@my-deja.com>
Re: Perl and memory consumption <jasonb885@my-deja.com>
Re: Perl and memory consumption <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Re: Perl and memory consumption (Andrew Johnson)
Re: Perl and memory consumption <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Re: Perl and memory consumption (Gwyn Judd)
perl cgi problem. thax in advance. <peng@cs.ualberta.ca>
Re: PERL DBI module to connect to MS-Access databases? <amangla@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Perl/Tk system() call <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Re: PLEASE HELP - PLEASE READ traveling_man@[N.O.S.P.A.M]waywardson.com
pnggraph/gifgraph and logarithmic axes <cybertoast@nopoop.mindless.com>
Re: pnggraph/gifgraph and logarithmic axes <michael.schlueter@philips.com>
Problem compiling perl with Borland C++ 5.5 <eyalb@aks.com>
Re: System() & PID <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Using "system" <dave.woods@bigfoot.com>
Re: Where is @INC in ActiveState Perl for Win32 ??????? <jaggers295@hotmail.com>
Writing Matlab files via Perl <wipf@bainet.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:19:57 GMT
From: adelton@fi.muni.cz (Honza Pazdziora)
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <FvsLD9.Gz0@news.muni.cz>
On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 22:00:23 -0700, Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
>
> What your fingers and a keyboard can do is write
> your own code to do what you want without modules,
> reducing your memory bloat down to a size analogous
> to dear little Tinker Bell's head.
You're most definitely right. Do you have your substitute for DBI and
DBD::Oracle somewhere on the net, so that I could cut'n'paste it into
my scripts?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honza Pazdziora | adelton@fi.muni.cz | http://www.fi.muni.cz/~adelton/
.project: Perl, DBI, Oracle, MySQL, auth. WWW servers, MTB, Spain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 07 Jun 2000 21:07:39 -0500
From: Tony Curtis <tony_curtis32@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <871z2953is.fsf@limey.hpcc.uh.edu>
>> On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 19:42:57 -0400,
>> Joe Kline <jkline@one.net> said:
> <SNIP code bloat, modules, etc....> How can someone be
> so against modules? Aren't they roughly analagous to
> #includes in C? At least that's how I've come to
Oh no. Nothing like (fortunately).
> understand them. (I learned Perl before I started
> learning about C/C++).
C++ would be a tad (McClellan? :-) closer to "use".
> Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Modules make life so much easier. I wrote CGI stuff for a
branch of a big Euro. ISP before Lincoln did the world a
huge favour by writing CGI.pm (when perl5 took over from
perl4). I wouldn't want to go back to the old way. I
can't remember the last time I wrote a (non-trivial) perl
program that doesn't use (pun!) modules. It saves hours
of development time.
Of course, blindly using modules is not a replacement for
understanding what is going on. In fact, grokking what is
going on helps you understand the motivation for the
module.
hth
t
--
"Trying is the first step towards failure"
Homer Simpson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 19:24:22 -0700
From: "Godzilla!" <callgirl@la.znet.com>
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <393F03D6.DAAD9F42@la.znet.com>
Gwyn Judd wrote:
(snipped trolling, personal insults, harassment, sociopathic comments)
Whew...
Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:00:48 GMT
From: |Odo| <jasonb885@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <8hn5p9$598$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
I guess you're trying to be funny.
Try harder.
In article <393EE21C.9957FA60@stomp.stomp.tokyo>,
"Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
> Andrew Johnson wrote:
> > In article <393EC33E.AB9C2DFF@stomp.stomp.tokyo>,
> > Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
>
> > > So, yes there are common circumstances when
> > > a module will bloat your memory by a very
> > > significant percentage factor. I will stand
> > > by my loose, rough, unscientific guesstimation,
> > > averaging all modules together, you can expect
> > > a bloat factor of one-thousand percent.
>
> > At least the descriptors: 'loose', 'rough', and 'unscientific'
> > are accurate :-)
>
> Accuracy is imperative. This is why I choose counting
> blinks of my eyes over inaccurate benchmarking. However,
> guesstimation is of greater accuracy.
>
> > But I propose that the whole notion of averaging bloat across
> > modules -- even if you could factor in some sort of 'average usage'
> > case for each module -- is meaningless.
>
> Not with this accuracy I have afforded.
>
> > Modules must be assessed on an individual basis in relation
> > to the task at hand.
>
> Yes, this is realisitic. So far, I have been very fortunate
> to find one module of all modules worth using; LWP Simple.
>
> > Loading some date module may be overkill
>
> Yes, and accurate averages show modules bloat
> your memory use by one-thousand percent. This
> is your personal memory use in trying to remember
> how to get a module to work right.
>
> > if all I want to do is compare two dates
>
> Do you prefer blonds or brunettes?
> I am a brunette but unavailable, mostly.
>
> > but if my task involves lots of date calculations and
> > conversions, time deltas in business days, and perhaps
> > other date related things,
>
> This seems a lot of work to expend simply to
> decide which date you want to entertain for
> an evening. Flip a coin?
>
> > until the need really arises.
>
> With men, this seems a moment-by-moment condition.
>
> > > Perhaps then, what I have suggested, is very
> > > valid advice; don't use a module unless you
> > > have a darn good reason.
>
> > Perhaps, then, you won't mind if I counter your
> > advice with some of my own: If a module is available
> > that does what you want then use it *unless* you have
> > a darn good reason not too.
>
> Yeah, I have pretty good reasons for not using
> modules, save for the one I like and mentioned.
> My reasons are I have no need for memory bloating
> modules, don't care for all the bugs and problems
> modules introduce, wouldn't care to pay additional
> operating expenses, not to mention modules slowing
> down my hot rod programs, which I mentioned anyhow.
>
> Avoid modules. Save some time and money. You can
> spend both on whichever date you decide to graciously
> entertain for an evening, and brag about what a skilled
> programmer you are with no need for modules. Shirley she
> will understand this and be impressed right out of her
> spandex pants.
>
> I wouldn't mention this to your wife however.
>
> Godzilla!
>
--
Sincerely,
Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ -
New Literature Message Boards!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:17:42 GMT
From: |Odo| <jasonb885@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <8hn6os$607$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <393EB961.6C84E29E@stomp.stomp.tokyo>,
"Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
> |Odo| wrote:
> > "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
> > > Dan Sugalski wrote:
> > > > Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
> > > > > |Odo| wrote:
>
> > > > No. There's a very small overhead to using a module,
>
> > > > Modules certainly *can* take a lot of memory,
>
> > > Let me know when you have made up your mind
> > > whether or not modules are memory bloat hogs.
>
> > That was unfairly taken out of context -- and you KNOW it.
>
> Yes, I know Mr. Sugalski deliberately took my comments
> out of context, this is very clear.
Claming a false thing to be true doesn't make it so.
> > The point is, the act of "use"ing a module requires little memory,
> > although obviously that doesn't mean the module ITSELF doesn't
> > take up a lot of memory.
>
> Yes, modules are memory bloat hogs as you state.
You have trouble reading? How much memory a module uses obviously must
be looked at on a module by module basis.
> Appears you are aware of some differences. Why then
> have you asked a question pertaining to modules and
> memory with prior knowledge of what is and what isn't?
> I am challenged to understand why you would ask
> a question for which you already know an answer.
Perhaps because I desired confirmation?
> How "little" memory for processing would a fairly
> stereotypical module use compared to custom coding?
> Are you looking to reduce your memory useage or do
> you have something else in mind?
My goal was and is to reduce memory overhead. The other posters were
successful in helping me chuck unneeded modules in favor of lower
overhead ones that produce similar results.
I have considerable time invested in my existing application framework.
I was resonably sure that modules weren't imposing any significant
overhead, and that's proven to be mostly true.
My answer lies else where.
> Are you looking for well intended advice given
> in good spirit or looking to initiate a flame war
> under the guise of a question?
Judging from the responses to your threads, it appears obvious that your
goal is to start flame wars or otherwise troll in new and exciting ways.
You have succeeding in one respect, however. You've further instilled
within me the belief that modules are a good thing.
> Godzilla!
>
--
Sincerely,
Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ -
New Literature Message Boards!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:56:06 -0700
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <393F2766.712880CF@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
|Odo| wrote:
(others contributed)
(snipped a bit)
> My goal was and is to reduce memory overhead. The other
> posters were successful in helping me chuck unneeded modules
> in favor of lower overhead ones that produce similar results.
Fascinating. A general theme for this thread, a concensus
indicates, paraphrased,
"Godzilla, you are wrong. Modules do not bloat memory usage."
Now you and, humorously, others are telling me modules
do bloat memory usage. This is why you 'chucked' some
modules, is this not so?
Seems many here do not understand how modules work
or, are simply looking to start an argument by
constantly switching debate positions to add
fuel to your own fires.
Strikes me, you and others are trolls, yes?
If you say you and others are not trolls, then
your knowledge level of how modules work is
rather inadequate and you should not be commenting.
This is real humor. My original post to you was
good natured and well intended, clearly holding
no inflammatory intent. Who turned all of this
into flame articles and hatred? You people. This
is well evidenced by your articles displaying
personal insults and harassment much like this article
written by hmm.. Gyen? Gwen? No matter, your articles
are basically sociopathic in nature and available for
review by anyone who takes a notion to peek.
I believe some of you to be trolls, deep into denial, yes.
Fascinating.
Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 05:21:40 GMT
From: andrew-johnson@home.com (Andrew Johnson)
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <E3G%4.3615$55.43817@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
In article <393EE21C.9957FA60@stomp.stomp.tokyo>,
Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
! Andrew Johnson wrote:
[snip]
! > Modules must be assessed on an individual basis in relation
! > to the task at hand.
!
! Yes, this is realisitic. So far, I have been very fortunate
! to find one module of all modules worth using; LWP Simple.
Fortunately, I have been rather more fortunate in finding modules
worth using.
! > if all I want to do is compare two dates
!
! Do you prefer blonds or brunettes?
! I am a brunette but unavailable, mostly.
I suppose you think that by using 'date' in an unrelated context and
thinly disguising it as humor, you can distract me into admitting
that bloat and efficiency (or how fast they get loaded) might matter
when comparing dates -- well, I'm not falling for it.
! Avoid modules. Save some time and money. You can
s/Avoid/Use/;
andrew
--
Andrew L. Johnson http://members.home.net/perl-epwp/
There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
-- Larry Wall in <1992Aug19.041614.6963@netlabs.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 22:31:37 -0700
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <393F2FB9.C6C9A9E3@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Andrew Johnson wrote:
(others contributed, some snippage)
> I suppose you think that by using 'date' in an unrelated
> context and thinly disguising it as humor, you can distract
> me into admitting that bloat and efficiency (or how fast they
> get loaded) might matter when comparing dates -- well, I'm not
> falling for it.
Actually, I am being nice to you with hopes of
giving you a smile, perhaps even a laugh. Sadly,
it does truly appear you are not programmed for
either of those enjoyable personal events.
*shrugs*
Suppose I should check over the entrance door to
this newsgroup for stated rules,
"Humor Not Allowed. Hatred Welcomed."
You think maybe these are the rules here?
Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 06:26:37 GMT
From: tjla@guvfybir.qlaqaf.bet (Gwyn Judd)
Subject: Re: Perl and memory consumption
Message-Id: <slrn8juf9g.k63.tjla@thislove.dyndns.org>
I was shocked! How could Godzilla! <callgirl@la.znet.com>
say such a terrible thing:
>Gwyn Judd wrote:
>(snipped trolling, personal insults, harassment, sociopathic comments)
>
>Whew...
Speechless? That's not like you. I forgot to mention some other habits
of yours. You always make the same stupid mistakes in the code you
write. This I think is so that those of us regulars here will grow tired
of you and killfile you so that we wont see you and you can go on with
your task of sowing chaos and confusion.
You never use the help the compiler offers to you (eg. "-w" and "use
"strict"). This you say is for the simple reason that you write your
code with some kind of magical built in checking code that will somehow
make sure that your code always executes perfectly. The fact that it
executes correctly with the "test data" that you supply is irrelevant to
a proper analysis of the problem. Every time I have looked at your code
it has been obvious that there is a better way to solve the problem.
Your code is fragile, it is obvious at a glance that it will fail in the
simplest of special cases. The way you code must be through malice.
Nobody could be that clueless about such basic things as you and still
feel they had something useful to teach others.
You always assume the user is creating a CGI application, despite most
everyone here telling you that putting the words
'print "Content-type: text/plain\n\n"' is not some kind of mantra that
must be invoked every time you create a program in Perl. Have you never
even heard of a command line?
Finally some rebuttal, I looked up "sociopathic" in the dictionary
(since I'm obviously not half so clever as you I thought I would be wise
to check what it means rather than just guess). It means "of, relating
to, or characterized by asocial or antisocial behavior or a psychopathic
personality". The term psychopathic personality means:
1 : an emotionally and behaviorally disordered state characterized by
clear perception of reality except for the individual's social and moral
obligations and often by the pursuit of immediate personal gratification
in criminal acts, drug addiction, or sexual perversion.
To quote The Princess Bride "You keep using that word, I do not think it
means what you think it means". I'll stop now before I get too boring
but I just want to say that maybe you should reconsider why you are here
and what your purpose is. Maybe you should go somewhere else, where you
may be able to offer people actual help.
--
Gwyn Judd (tjla@guvfybir.qlaqaf.bet)
My return address is rot13'ed
A man paints with his brains and not with his hands.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:01:23 GMT
From: "Peng" <peng@cs.ualberta.ca>
Subject: perl cgi problem. thax in advance.
Message-Id: <7xH%4.2208$vT6.296201@news1.telusplanet.net>
Hi,all. Does anyone know how to let perl cgi achieve the following task?
When a button is pushed, instead of giving the feedback to the same window,
the cgi program pops out a new window and display message there. I will be
very appreciated if someone can tell me how to use perl to do that.
Thax a lot.
peng wang
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:58:32 -0700
From: amangla <amangla@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: PERL DBI module to connect to MS-Access databases?
Message-Id: <393F27F8.15D79F74@ix.netcom.com>
Have you tried DBI:ProxyServer and DBI:ODBC to talk to ms-access db.
I'm in the process of doing that and still struggling with how to make
DBI:Proxy work.
-Anupma
"Edwin A. Jukniewicz" wrote:
> BY the way, I should mention, I'm running PERL on a Linux/Intel box.
> RH V6.2
>
> THanks...
>
> - Ed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:57:42 GMT
From: Bob Walton <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Perl/Tk system() call
Message-Id: <393F0AA0.4727EFEA@rochester.rr.com>
debers@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> How do I invoke a separate program from a TK gui?
>
> When I use system('prog_path') the second application launches but the
> toplevel window is unavailable until I close the second application.
>
> I'm running Perl/Tk on Windows98.
...
Maybe if you said:
system('start prog_path');
it would work?
--
Bob Walton
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 06:27:20 GMT
From: traveling_man@[N.O.S.P.A.M]waywardson.com
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP - PLEASE READ
Message-Id: <d2fujsou0acmdsabmt98pshhtglclu93t8@4ax.com>
>I would apreciate if anyone could send me a free script for personal adds
>which would include ability to automatically delete, add, view and search
>the adds.
>
>both nt or unix server (we preffer nt)
I probably shouldn't do this. I doesn't even sound like you went to
the trouble of doing a web search. I will be nice and give you a
starting point.
http://cgi.resourceindex.com/Programs_and_Scripts/Perl/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 00:40:50 -0500
From: Sundar <cybertoast@nopoop.mindless.com>
Subject: pnggraph/gifgraph and logarithmic axes
Message-Id: <393F31E2.689BE7D6@nopoop.mindless.com>
I'm in need of setting the y-axis of my plot to a logarithmic scale. Is
there any way to do this with any of the graphing modules? I've tried
GIFgraph, PNGgraph and Chart, but none seem to have this feature.
Any leads would be greatly appreciated. I'm currently using pnggraph,
and would like to stick with it.
Cheers.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:49:02 +0200
From: "Michael Schlueter" <michael.schlueter@philips.com>
Subject: Re: pnggraph/gifgraph and logarithmic axes
Message-Id: <8hnfm1$nh3$1@porthos.nl.uu.net>
I think there is an option for log-scales. What you can always do is to
calculate the log(y) separately and display this on a linear y'-scale.
------------------------------
Date: 05 Jun 2000 01:52:43 +0300
From: Eyal Ben-David <eyalb@aks.com>
Subject: Problem compiling perl with Borland C++ 5.5
Message-Id: <m2zop183es.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Hello,
I'm using a privately built version of Perl in one of my projects.
currently I'm using BCB4.
The project GUI is built with BCB4 but much of the core implementation is
done with Perl modules. The main program has an embedded perl interpreter,
which was compiled with BCC 5.4 (from BCB4).
I used perl C++ api (http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/authors/id/KENFOX/).
I had to change it in some places. After the changes it compiles fine
with g++ 2.95.2 and Borland C++ 5.4 and is very easy to use.
I had to change the default makefile and win32.c in two places:
1. makefile.mk - tlink32.exe no longer exist in BCB4/5
2. win32.c - Borland C++ supports anonymous unions in C
When Borland released their free compiler, I tried to compile Perl
with it. In the build process miniperl is built but fail immediately
at startup. (print garbage, some beeps and exit).
The error occur both with perl 5.6.0 and 5.005
I'd like to know if someone succeeded in compiling Perl with BCC 5.5
I think that the makefile for building perl with BCC 5.4 and 5.5 is
outdated. This should be corrected. The support and the tests is for
5.02 only but this is a relatively old compiler. Now that the compiler
is free for download I think that it is the one that should be tested
first. If someone is interested I can send the makefile.mk and the files
that I changed when compiling with 5.4
Thanks.
Eyal.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:34:13 GMT
From: Bob Walton <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: System() & PID
Message-Id: <393F0521.96B5494C@rochester.rr.com>
"J. Lundell" wrote:
...
> Is there a way on NT to create a new process and capture the Process ID
> of this new process via Perl?
...
> -Jim, 3M
...
perldoc -f fork
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 07:48:12 +0100
From: "Dave Woods" <dave.woods@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Using "system"
Message-Id: <8hnfja$nmi$1@nutmeg.nnrp.netline.net.uk>
Hi
I've just read http://www.perlfaq.com and can't seem to find what I'm
looking for...
I need to run another program from my script, now I thought I would use the
system command. However, when reading about this on the FAQ it says my
script will wait for this program to end before continuing. But I wish to
start severeal instances of this program, I had planned to used screen to
run them in the background, but according to the FAQ system isn't the right
thing to use.
Maybe I've misunderstood it, could someone explain whether this is the case
and offer me a solution to my problem?
Thanks
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 01:54:24 GMT
From: "Neo-X" <jaggers295@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where is @INC in ActiveState Perl for Win32 ???????
Message-Id: <k1D%4.2078$O4.51686@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>
Try typing in "perl -h" at the command line. It will tell you that the @INC
array can be modified by typing in perl -Idirectory -Idirectory -Idirectory
.... at the command line.
So in your case it would be
"perl -Ic:/progra~1/perl/lib -Ic:/progra~1/perl/site/lib".
Note also that perlfaq8 also answers your question and gives some
alternative ways of setting the @INC directories, including the win32
environment variables PERL5LIB or PERLLIB.
In the future, I suggest you do a little more research on your own before
posting to the newsgroup - it usually saves lots of time on your part and
energy on others. If your question is simple, chances are it will be
explained in the documentation that came with the program, or appear in the
FAQ's somewhere.
--Ben Lee
catalyst_of_dreams@hotmail.com
> Come on, someone must know!
>
> Yours Sincerely
>
> Nick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 01:01:46 -0400
From: "David Paul Wipf" <wipf@bainet.com>
Subject: Writing Matlab files via Perl
Message-Id: <8hn9k0017co@enews1.newsguy.com>
Does anyone know how to create Matlab .mat files via Perl. Thanks
Dave
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 3286
**************************************
