[13915] in Perl-Users-Digest
No subject found in mail header
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Nov 10 17:47:55 1999
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 12:43:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <942093791-v9-i1311@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 8 Nov 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 1311
Today's topics:
Re: perl and commonsense <montuori@acs.neu.edu>
Re: perl and commonsense <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: perl and commonsense (Kevin Reid)
Perl and Novell Netware <239554@aol.you.must.be.joking.com>
Perl and Novell Netware <239554@aol.you.must.be.joking.com>
Re: Perl and Novell Netware <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
perl as first language? <thirdwaver@inxpress.net>
Re: perl as first language? (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: perl as first language? (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: perl as first language? (Jon Bell)
Re: perl as first language? (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: perl as first language? (Abigail)
Re: perl as first language? (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: perl as first language? (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: perl as first language? <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Re: perl as first language? (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: perl as first language? (Abigail)
Re: perl dB <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Perl Executable Running as an NT Service (Eisen Chao)
Re: Perl Executable Running as an NT Service <mbridgwater@lmn.net>
Perl Geek Cruise <moseley@best.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 03 Nov 1999 11:19:42 -0500
From: kevin montuori <montuori@acs.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: perl and commonsense
Message-Id: <ygeu2n31ra9.fsf@spot.acs.neu.edu>
>>> ajmayo writes:
aj> What I find with perl is that extrapolation from common sense
aj> seldom works.
when learning a foreign language do you find that "extrapolation
from common sense" works? in my experience, common sense has
little to do with being able to program competently; knowing the
rules, irregularities, and idioms of a language is far more
beneficial.
aj> The problem seems to be that perl is just too subtle and clever,
aj> and the documentation presupposes that you will be just as
aj> subtle and clever. This may be why it is organised in the
aj> peculiar way that it is, compared to most programming language
aj> documentation, which tends to be task-oriented.
"...too subtle and clever?" how exactly? perl itself is not
particularly subtle nor clever. it can, of course, be used in
subtle and clever ways, but that's your choice.
if you're partial to "task-oriented" documentation, you should
have a look at the perl cookbook.
aj> Compared with the clean elegance of Javascript, perl suffers
aj> very badly from metacharacter madness.
and french suffers from all those accents? i like your line
about the "clean elegance of Javascript" though -- i rarely see
a javascript (what -- script? program?) blurb which doesn't have
to first decide what sort of interpreter is evaluating it then
provide conditionals to change its syntax in order to do what it
thinks might be the right thing, this week.
aj> My life isn't helped by perl's infuriating error reporting,
aj> which assumes that printing the line number is sufficient. This
aj> is not the case!. If the code is running inside of Apache
aj> (mod_perl) the line number is meaningless.
how about
$SIG{__DIE__} = \&Carp::confess;
in your startup.pl (or whatever) file? if you don't find perl's
default behaviour what you want, change it.
aj> The thing is, right now, its the only server-side language with
aj> infrastructure (e.g DBI for database access) that I can use with
aj> both Microsoft IIS and Apache.
you may not be able to use them, but that's not to say that
other languages don't exist. for instance, you could use C.
aj> Server-side javascript is emerging but the infrastructure, like
aj> database access, isn't really there yet.
perish the though.
aj> Once you start using the more advanced language features, are
aj> you having trouble getting predictable results?
no. ("more advanced?" what "features" exactly?)
aj> Does common-sense extrapolation work for you?
no. it didn't help me learn latin either.
aj> Has your code turned out to be maintainable?.
absolutely. if, and only if, the maintainer is a perl
programmer.
aj> And does the limited error message reporting cause you a
aj> problem...?
no, and i'd question the descriptor "limited."
i'm particularly bothered by your notion that programming should
be doable if one has particularly keen common sense. people
don't think chemistry is just a matter of common sense; gymnasts
aren't gold metal winners because they have great quantities of
common sense; why would programming, in any language, be any
different?
this "programming is common sense" nonsense strikes a raw nerve
with me, i felt compelled to respond. i don't believe this is
the case, but my apologies if this discussion is inappropriate
for this group.
cheers,
k.
--
kevin montuori
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:46:58 -0800
From: Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: perl and commonsense
Message-Id: <MPG.128cb7eeeb90871298a1b9@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <ygeu2n31ra9.fsf@spot.acs.neu.edu> on 03 Nov 1999 11:19:42 -
0500, kevin montuori <montuori@acs.neu.edu> says...
...
> this "programming is common sense" nonsense strikes a raw nerve
> with me, i felt compelled to respond. i don't believe this is
> the case, but my apologies if this discussion is inappropriate
> for this group.
I, for one, felt that it was 'right on'!
('Julius Caesar', Act III, Scene 2: "To stir men's blood: I only speak
right on;")
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 18:35:55 -0500
From: kpreid@ibm.net (Kevin Reid)
Subject: Re: perl and commonsense
Message-Id: <1e0r17e.1nro0e816h3nk4N%kpreid@ibm.net>
Kragen Sitaker <kragen@dnaco.net> wrote:
> Actually, I posted that I'd found that earlier today. It doesn't seem
> to work all the time with eval STRING. Try this in 5.005_03:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> eval "#line 300 bobo.pl\n)\n";
> warn $@ if $@;
>
> So maybe it's not mod_perl's fault, since mod_perl has to eval STRING.
I find that it will work if you put a newline BEFORE the #line:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
eval "\n#line 300 bobo.pl\n)\n";
warn $@ if $@;
--
Kevin Reid: | Macintosh:
"I'm me." | Think different.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 19:21:53 +0000
From: DGJ <239554@aol.you.must.be.joking.com>
Subject: Perl and Novell Netware
Message-Id: <9lv82sgp6ngtd73bkj41mdaf8c5e6ldngv@4ax.com>
Hi all
I run a script using UPDATE.EXE which lets me extract data from users
as they log into Novell 4.11 servers at my site. This script writes
information such as login name, server name, hard drive space, CPU
speed, etc etc to a comma delimited file. This information is very
useful to maintain our audit of users and the equipment they use.
The data is collected mainly by running small assembler programs to
extract the CPU speed etc to a file which is read by the script and
passed to the log file, the scripting program also I have used
extensively to alter and update configuration files on users PC's.
I have seen a Perl NLM which can be used on Novell, but is it possible
to use Active Perl to do the same type of thing?
Any advice would be appreciated.
DGJ
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 19:31:08 +0000
From: DGJ <239554@aol.you.must.be.joking.com>
Subject: Perl and Novell Netware
Message-Id: <m7092sg3usonad30g0l5e9bmdqaeovfjmr@4ax.com>
Hi all
I run a script using UPDATE.EXE which lets me extract data from users
as they log into Novell 4.11 servers at my site. It is used mainly to
run small assembler programs which write data such as login name, CPU
speed, hard drive space etc etc to a file which is read by the
scripting program and written to a comma delimited file. This
information is very useful to maintain our audit of users and the
equipment they use.
I have seen a Perl NLM which can be used on Novell, but is it possible
to use Active Perl to do the same type of thing?
Any advice would be appreciated.
DGJ
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 1999 20:52:29 -0000
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: Perl and Novell Netware
Message-Id: <8024ed$bon$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 19:21:53 +0000 DGJ wrote:
>
> I have seen a Perl NLM which can be used on Novell, but is it possible
> to use Active Perl to do the same type of thing?
>
It appears that you didnt see my reply of last monday. ActivePerl only
runs on Windows - if you can transfer your files to a windows machine
or put them somewhere on your netware server that the windows machines
on your network can access then yes you can use ActivePerl to process
files created some program on your netware server.
I havent much dealing with Netware stuff for a while now but I believe that
the port of Perl that they had about a year ago was based on perl 5.003
(quite old now) lacked certain modules and was difficult to install new
modules. The port was basically designed to do CGI with but I believe it
could run scripts at the server prompt.
Its a shame that the work that Novell obviously did in creating the NLM
version was never combined into the distribution because they would have
benefitted by having their patches updated to work with more recent Perls -
I would hope that it still would be possible to do that if they were to
come up with the code.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
<http://www.gellyfish.com>
Hastings: <URL:http://dmoz.org/Regional/UK/England/East_Sussex/Hastings>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:08:10 -0600
From: "todd" <thirdwaver@inxpress.net>
Subject: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <s2929r91hpc35@news.supernews.com>
I have been playing with perl off and on now for about 6 months. I have not
really accomplished anything useful but I have been supporting Oreily and a
few other publishers. One thing that I come across alot is the sugestion
that perl is not a great choice for a first language. If that is that case
what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
xxx)?
I am a sys admin type who is trying to learn to program mostly to develop
creative solutions for mundane daily tasks such as modigying DNS databases
and parsing syslogs. OS es that I use are primarily netware, NT, DG-UX,
Linux, and 98 in that order.
If perl is not a bad place to start then maybe I should just keep going. I
already have a lot of time invested.
todd
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 20:45:19 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <zr0V3.48789$23.1850286@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <s2929r91hpc35@news.supernews.com>,
todd <thirdwaver@inxpress.net> wrote:
>I have been playing with perl off and on now for about 6 months. I have not
>really accomplished anything useful but I have been supporting Oreily and a
>few other publishers. One thing that I come across alot is the sugestion
>that perl is not a great choice for a first language. If that is that case
>what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
>xxx)?
English is a good first language, I think. You should learn at least
one natural language before trying to learn Perl, and English is almost
essential. (Despite your claims, it appears you already speak
English. :))
As programming languages go, Perl isn't too bad. You might consider
learning Scheme first; you can download a quite nice version from
http://www.cs.rice.edu/CS/PLT/packages/drscheme/download.html. The
first chapter of an excellent textbook is online at
http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/.
>I am a sys admin type who is trying to learn to program mostly to develop
>creative solutions for mundane daily tasks such as modigying DNS databases
>and parsing syslogs. OS es that I use are primarily netware, NT, DG-UX,
>Linux, and 98 in that order.
You might find Perl to be more compelling as a first language than Scheme.
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Tue Nov 02 1999
6 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 1999 23:52:09 GMT
From: mgjv@wobbie.heliotrope.home (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <slrn829fs9.5vv.mgjv@wobbie.heliotrope.home>
On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:08:10 -0600,
todd <thirdwaver@inxpress.net> wrote:
> I have been playing with perl off and on now for about 6 months. I have not
> really accomplished anything useful but I have been supporting Oreily and a
> few other publishers. One thing that I come across alot is the sugestion
> that perl is not a great choice for a first language. If that is that case
> what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
> xxx)?
>
> I am a sys admin type who is trying to learn to program mostly to develop
> creative solutions for mundane daily tasks such as modigying DNS databases
> and parsing syslogs. OS es that I use are primarily netware, NT, DG-UX,
> Linux, and 98 in that order.
>
> If perl is not a bad place to start then maybe I should just keep going. I
> already have a lot of time invested.
If you want to learn programming mainly for system administration tasks,
then I suppose a knowledge of awk, sed, sh/csh and regular expressions
will be a good thing, because you'll find yourself doing many of the
things that you used to do with those tools, and much of the idea of
those tools is present in Perl. I'd say it's entirely useless to learn
Java for this type of programming, and it might even get in the way.
Other languages like Pascal, Scheme, Python, tcl etc migth also not be
too useful. For a sysadmin, however, C may be a very useful language to
know.
Now, whether to start with C or Perl is a hard question. I think you'll
find that if you're used to shell tools, the route via Perl to C will be
easier. If you don't know any languages yet, maybe C would be a better
start.
But I wouldn't really bother with the other languages as long as it's
syadmin oriented programming. They're mostly usel^Wharmless in that
context :) System administration is about lots of text processing, and
getting a job done fast. Having to write a log parser in Java may get
in the way a bit.
And don't read 'MS visual C' where I said 'C'. It's not the same thing.
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Interactive Media Division | "In a world without fences,
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | who needs Gates?"
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 00:07:35 GMT
From: jtbell@presby.edu (Jon Bell)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <FKswCo.Ln9@presby.edu>
todd <thirdwaver@inxpress.net> wrote:
>what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
>xxx)?
People who teach programming to beginners for a living (i.e. computer
science professors) have argued about this since the beginning of
programming. :-) A few years ago the main debate was between C++ and
Pascal. Now the main debate is between C++ and Java. There are some
languages that are specifically designed for teaching programming, but
they haven't taken off, mainly because they're not used for anything
*besides* teaching. (Pascal is historically the big exception here,
because it was designed originally for teaching, but actually got used for
some practical programming in the '80s.)
Perl has not figured in these debates, as far as I know. I think it's
because of a combination of the following factors:
(a) It's relatively new. C++ has been around since the mid-'80s, but
only in the last few years (since about 1994 or so) have there been a
significant number of real academic textbooks that use it.
(b) Few people in academia who teach beginning programmers and write
textbooks know Perl. Perl is mainly used by system-administrator types
and Web-site creators/maintainers, neither of whom figure prominently in
the academic teaching community.
(c) Perl is probably viewed as a "messy" language by many people,
because of its mongrel heritage (C, sed, awk, etc.).
>I am a sys admin type who is trying to learn to program mostly to develop
>creative solutions for mundane daily tasks such as modigying DNS databases
>and parsing syslogs. OS es that I use are primarily netware, NT, DG-UX,
>Linux, and 98 in that order.
As long as you've invested significant effort in Perl, you might as well
stick with it. You might also pick up a textbook intended for an
introductory programming ("CS1") course at a college or university. The
exact language doesn't really matter, so long as it's one that you have
available to practice with. A good textbook of this kind focuses on
general programming issues that don't depend on the particular language,
although it has to *use* some particular language, of course.
--
Jon Bell <jtbell@presby.edu> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
[ Information about newsgroups for beginners: ]
[ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/6882/ ]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 02:01:11 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <H35V3.49746$23.1885407@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <slrn829fs9.5vv.mgjv@wobbie.heliotrope.home>,
Martien Verbruggen <mgjv@comdyn.com.au> wrote:
>If you want to learn programming mainly for system administration tasks,
>then I suppose a knowledge of awk, sed, sh/csh and regular expressions
>will be a good thing, because you'll find yourself doing many of the
>things that you used to do with those tools, and much of the idea of
>those tools is present in Perl. I'd say it's entirely useless to learn
>Java for this type of programming, and it might even get in the way.
>Other languages like Pascal, Scheme, Python, tcl etc migth also not be
>too useful. For a sysadmin, however, C may be a very useful language to
>know.
Learning to program for system administration has at least three parts:
learning to program, learning a particular language, and learning
system administration. Presumably Todd has already learned the third,
and has only learning to program and learning a language to go.
IMHO, learning to program is much harder than learning a language; a
language like Scheme or Java, even if it's completely useless
day-to-day, is probably better to learn to program in -- it allows a
beginner to focus their mind on the essentials of programming, by not
providing too many distractions. [I don't think Scheme *is* useless
day-to-day, but I must admit I don't use it nearly as much as I use
Perl.]
I learned BASIC as my first language, and so I had a very hard time
learning to program. Indeed, I didn't even know there was more to it
than learning the language -- for years! It wasn't until I learned
Pascal that I really began to get the point. (I learned Logo early,
too, but it wasn't available most of the places I played.)
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Tue Nov 02 1999
6 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 1999 22:13:18 -0600
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <slrn829v9t.2i1.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
todd (thirdwaver@inxpress.net) wrote on MMCCLVIII September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:s2929r91hpc35@news.supernews.com>:
'' I have been playing with perl off and on now for about 6 months. I have not
'' really accomplished anything useful but I have been supporting Oreily and a
'' few other publishers. One thing that I come across alot is the sugestion
'' that perl is not a great choice for a first language. If that is that case
'' what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
'' xxx)?
Python, Eiffel, Pascal, Java, LPC, Lisp, Algol, Scheme, ML, Haskel, Ada.
Abigail
--
perl -we 'print split /(?=(.*))/s => "Just another Perl Hacker\n";'
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
------------------------------
Date: 7 Nov 1999 11:04:30 GMT
From: mgjv@wobbie.heliotrope.home (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <slrn82an6t.7sm.mgjv@wobbie.heliotrope.home>
On Sun, 07 Nov 1999 02:01:11 GMT,
Kragen Sitaker <kragen@dnaco.net> wrote:
> In article <slrn829fs9.5vv.mgjv@wobbie.heliotrope.home>,
> Martien Verbruggen <mgjv@comdyn.com.au> wrote:
> >If you want to learn programming mainly for system administration tasks,
> >then I suppose a knowledge of awk, sed, sh/csh and regular expressions
> >will be a good thing, because you'll find yourself doing many of the
> >things that you used to do with those tools, and much of the idea of
> >those tools is present in Perl. I'd say it's entirely useless to learn
> >Java for this type of programming, and it might even get in the way.
> >Other languages like Pascal, Scheme, Python, tcl etc migth also not be
> >too useful. For a sysadmin, however, C may be a very useful language to
> >know.
>
> Learning to program for system administration has at least three parts:
> learning to program, learning a particular language, and learning
> system administration. Presumably Todd has already learned the third,
> and has only learning to program and learning a language to go.
I presumed the same :)
> IMHO, learning to program is much harder than learning a language; a
> language like Scheme or Java, even if it's completely useless
> day-to-day, is probably better to learn to program in -- it allows a
> beginner to focus their mind on the essentials of programming, by not
> providing too many distractions. [I don't think Scheme *is* useless
> day-to-day, but I must admit I don't use it nearly as much as I use
> Perl.]
I don't think that languages like Java are too great tolearn programming
in. It's too much at once, it's too restrictive, and you have to learn
too many of the idiosyncracies that come with strict OO programming
environments before you can even start doing slightly more advanced
version of "Hello, world". Of course, it will make it easy for you to
pop up a window soonish.
If any of the restrictive languages would get my vote as a good place to
start to learn programming in general it would probably be Pascal.
(which you mention later in your post as well). But In the case of this
particular poster, where the programming is going to be task driven, and
aimed at contact with the machine, I still think that C and Perl would
be better candidates. It's much easier to shoot yourself in the foot,
but at least they let you. Pascal is too restrictive to be able to shoot
the machine in the pedestal, and you need to be able to do that. Why
else are you the system admin in the first place? :)
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Interactive Media Division | Never hire a poor lawyer. Never buy
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | from a rich salesperson.
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:50:50 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <uKkV3.53852$23.2012627@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <slrn829v9t.2i1.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>,
Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
>todd (thirdwaver@inxpress.net) wrote on MMCCLVIII September MCMXCIII in
><URL:news:s2929r91hpc35@news.supernews.com>:
>'' I have been playing with perl off and on now for about 6 months. I have not
>'' really accomplished anything useful but I have been supporting Oreily and a
>'' few other publishers. One thing that I come across alot is the sugestion
>'' that perl is not a great choice for a first language. If that is that case
>'' what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
>'' xxx)?
>
>Python, Eiffel, Pascal, Java, LPC, Lisp, Algol, Scheme, ML, Haskel, Ada.
You know *all* of these well enough to recommend them? Abigail, you
are a goddess.
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Tue Nov 02 1999
6 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: 7 Nov 1999 20:17:18 -0000
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <804moe$e4t$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:50:50 GMT Kragen Sitaker wrote:
> In article <slrn829v9t.2i1.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>,
> Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
>>todd (thirdwaver@inxpress.net) wrote on MMCCLVIII September MCMXCIII in
>><URL:news:s2929r91hpc35@news.supernews.com>:
>>'' I have been playing with perl off and on now for about 6 months. I have not
>>'' really accomplished anything useful but I have been supporting Oreily and a
>>'' few other publishers. One thing that I come across alot is the sugestion
>>'' that perl is not a great choice for a first language. If that is that case
>>'' what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
>>'' xxx)?
>>
>>Python, Eiffel, Pascal, Java, LPC, Lisp, Algol, Scheme, ML, Haskel, Ada.
>
> You know *all* of these well enough to recommend them? Abigail, you
> are a goddess.
Well can we settle on *deity* as that is sex neutral eh ?
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
<http://www.gellyfish.com>
Hastings: <URL:http://dmoz.org/Regional/UK/England/East_Sussex/Hastings>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:35:20 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <colV3.54024$23.2019517@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <804moe$e4t$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>,
Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:50:50 GMT Kragen Sitaker wrote:
>> You know *all* of these well enough to recommend them? Abigail, you
>> are a goddess.
>
>Well can we settle on *deity* as that is sex neutral eh ?
Deity. Abigail is a programming deity.
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Tue Nov 02 1999
6 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: 7 Nov 1999 21:32:56 -0600
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: perl as first language?
Message-Id: <slrn82cha4.lh6.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Kragen Sitaker (kragen@dnaco.net) wrote on MMCCLIX September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:uKkV3.53852$23.2012627@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>:
|| In article <slrn829v9t.2i1.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>,
|| Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
|| >todd (thirdwaver@inxpress.net) wrote on MMCCLVIII September MCMXCIII in
|| ><URL:news:s2929r91hpc35@news.supernews.com>:
|| >'' I have been playing with perl off and on now for about 6 months. I have not
|| >'' really accomplished anything useful but I have been supporting Oreily and a
|| >'' few other publishers. One thing that I come across alot is the sugestion
|| >'' that perl is not a great choice for a first language. If that is that case
|| >'' what is a good first language. (shell scripting, sed, awk, java, M$ Visual
|| >'' xxx)?
|| >
|| >Python, Eiffel, Pascal, Java, LPC, Lisp, Algol, Scheme, ML, Haskel, Ada.
||
|| You know *all* of these well enough to recommend them? Abigail, you
|| are a goddess.
I wouldn't be able to write anything beyond the most trivial programs
in most of those languages, without using a reference guide.
However, I do know enough about programming to recommend those languages
as suitable first languages. Of course, what's suitable for one person
doesn't have to be suitable for the other.
Abigail
--
perl -wleprint -eqq-@{[ -eqw\\- -eJust -eanother -ePerl -eHacker -e\\-]}-
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:11:22 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Subject: Re: perl dB
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911050911080.29670-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, =A4@=A4=EB wrote:
> the above script do work in linux shell but doesn't work in http request,
When you're having trouble with a CGI program in Perl, you should first
look at the please-don't-be-offended-by-the-name Idiot's Guide to solving
such problems. It's available on CPAN.
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/
http://www.cpan.org/
http://www.cpan.org/doc/FAQs/cgi/idiots-guide.html
http://www.cpan.org/doc/manual/html/pod/
Hope this helps!
--=20
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:13:14 GMT
From: echao@interaccess.com (Eisen Chao)
Subject: Perl Executable Running as an NT Service
Message-Id: <s260gquhhpc56@corp.supernews.com>
To All:
If I have a compiled perl (ACTIVESTATE) script running
as a service on Windows NT:
1) Is setting up the main body of the program
as an infinite loop the way to go ?
while(1) { # main body as an infinite loop
# do something with out end
}
close FIL1;
close FIL2;
sub routine1(){
...
}
sub routine2(){
...
}
2) What happens when the program gets a shutdown signal ?
Does any open file close automatically ? If not, should
there be a way of intercepting the shutdown call from
the system (in order to safely close down any open files) ?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:54:04 -0500
From: "Mark Bridgwater" <mbridgwater@lmn.net>
Subject: Re: Perl Executable Running as an NT Service
Message-Id: <7vvg1d$25pg$1@news.gate.net>
Eisen,
Eisen Chao <echao@interaccess.com> wrote in message
news:s260gquhhpc56@corp.supernews.com...
> To All:
>
> If I have a compiled perl (ACTIVESTATE) script running
> as a service on Windows NT:
>
> 1) Is setting up the main body of the program
> as an infinite loop the way to go ?
>
>
> while(1) { # main body as an infinite loop
>
> ...
I don't see why this wouldn't work.
>
> 2) What happens when the program gets a shutdown signal ?
> Does any open file close automatically ? If not, should
> there be a way of intercepting the shutdown call from
> the system (in order to safely close down any open files) ?
>
Why not use the END subroutine block to close any files you have open?
see http://www.rexswain.com/perl5.html#subroutines
Also, see the fall issue of The Perl Journal for an article on running a
Perl program as a NT service.
www.tpj.com. Unless you want to become a subscriber, you'll have to pick
this up at any fine bookstore/newsstand (I was surprised to find a copy at
Borders)
--
===========================================================
Mark Bridgwater
Web-developer: Perl, ASP, Linux
mbridgwater@lmn.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:34:37 -0800
From: Bill Moseley <moseley@best.com>
Subject: Perl Geek Cruise
Message-Id: <MPG.128d6bd350ce286c98984f@nntp1.ba.best.com>
http://www.geekcruises.com/main.html
Alaska in the Spring is nice, sure. But for a trip to the Caribbean
mid-Winter, well yes, I could be convinced to learn Java...
--
Bill Moseley mailto:moseley@best.com
pls note the one line sig, not counting this one.
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
| NOTE: The mail to news gateway, and thus the ability to submit articles
| through this service to the newsgroup, has been removed. I do not have
| time to individually vet each article to make sure that someone isn't
| abusing the service, and I no longer have any desire to waste my time
| dealing with the campus admins when some fool complains to them about an
| article that has come through the gateway instead of complaining
| to the source.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 1311
**************************************
