[12931] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 341 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Aug 2 22:07:19 1999
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 19:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 2 Aug 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 341
Today's topics:
Re: beginner-redirect and download <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: beginner-redirect and download (Jerome O'Neil)
Re: beginner-redirect and download (Larry Rosler)
Re: File Permissions <dummkopf@debussy.ucsc.edu>
Re: File Permissions <makkulka@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
Re: File Permissions (elephant)
Re: General question about CHMOD (Abigail)
Re: General question about CHMOD <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Help - Perl/CGI on MS Personal Web Server. (elephant)
Re: help running Perl Scripts in win95 <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: How can I know what modules are installed on server (Abigail)
Re: How to determine a date in the past (Abigail)
Re: How to determine a date in the past (elephant)
Re: How to: run a DOS batch in perl/cgi? <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
mutiple shells running one app (CLTCEvans)
Re: newbabie, file's of 24 lines? (elephant)
Re: perl code can't work <makkulka@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
Perl or CGI <emulov@NOSPAMsin.khk.be>
Re: Perl or CGI <makkulka@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
pod2man question (Michael Wang)
Re: Problem reading forms with perl <Webdesigner@NewWebSite.com>
Re: Problem with spam in this group <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
qq construct rennie@electric-web.com
Quoting Strategies and the Jeopardy Game <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Quoting Strategies and the Jeopardy Game <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:08:36 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: beginner-redirect and download
Message-Id: <37a64114@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
llornkcor <llornkcor@llornkcor.com> writes:
:Ditto- I dont think it offtopic here, whats the 'misc' in the
:comp.lang.perl.misc mean??
Take your pick:
miscalculate
miscalculation
miscalculation's
miscalculator
miscall
miscaller
miscanonize
miscarriage
miscarriageable
miscarried
miscarries
miscarry
miscarrying
miscast
miscasting
miscasts
miscasualty
misceability
miscegenate
miscegenation
miscegenationist
miscegenator
miscegenetic
miscegine
miscellanarian
miscellanea
miscellaneity
miscellaneous
miscellaneously
miscellaneousness
miscellanies
miscellanist
miscellany
mischallenge
mischance
mischanceful
mischancy
mischaracterization
mischaracterize
mischarge
mischief
mischiefful
mischieve
mischievous
mischievously
mischievousness
mischio
mischoice
mischoose
mischristen
miscibility
miscible
miscipher
misclaim
misclaiming
misclass
misclassification
misclassify
miscognizant
miscoin
miscoinage
miscollocation
miscolor
miscoloration
miscommand
miscommit
miscommunicate
miscompare
miscomplacence
miscomplain
miscomplaint
miscompose
miscomprehend
miscomprehension
miscomputation
miscompute
misconceive
misconceiver
misconception
misconception's
misconclusion
miscondition
misconduct
misconfer
misconfidence
misconfident
misconfiguration
misconjecture
misconjugate
misconjugation
misconjunction
misconsecrate
misconsequence
misconstitutional
misconstruable
misconstruct
misconstruction
misconstructive
misconstrue
misconstrued
misconstruer
misconstrues
misconstruing
miscontinuance
misconvenient
misconvey
miscook
miscookery
miscorrect
miscorrection
miscounsel
miscount
miscovet
miscreancy
miscreant
miscreate
miscreation
miscreative
miscreator
miscredited
miscredulity
miscreed
miscript
miscrop
miscue
miscultivated
misculture
miscurvature
miscut
--tom
--
"I'd rather have :rofix than const."
--Dennis Ritchie
------------------------------
Date: 3 Aug 1999 01:17:58 GMT
From: jeromeo@atrieva.com (Jerome O'Neil)
Subject: Re: beginner-redirect and download
Message-Id: <7o5g06$bfr$2@brokaw.wa.com>
In article <37a64114@cs.colorado.edu>,
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> llornkcor <llornkcor@llornkcor.com> writes:
>:Ditto- I dont think it offtopic here, whats the 'misc' in the
>:comp.lang.perl.misc mean??
>
> Take your pick:
My vote: miscreant
--
Jerome O'Neil, Operations and Information Services
Atrieva Corporation, 600 University St., Ste. 911, Seattle, WA 98101
jeromeo@atrieva.com - Voice:206/749-2947
The Atrieva Service: Safe and Easy Online Backup http://www.i-filezone.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:51:15 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: beginner-redirect and download
Message-Id: <MPG.120feae5aca79763989da1@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <37a64114@cs.colorado.edu> on 2 Aug 1999 19:08:36 -0700, Tom
Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> says...
> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> llornkcor <llornkcor@llornkcor.com> writes:
> :Ditto- I dont think it offtopic here, whats the 'misc' in the
> :comp.lang.perl.misc mean??
...
> misconceive[d]
...
> misconstrued
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:20:36 -0700
From: Helmut Katzgraber <dummkopf@debussy.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: File Permissions
Message-Id: <37A635D4.AC292B94@debussy.ucsc.edu>
man chmod
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Helmut G. Katzgraber mail: dummkopf@debussy.ucsc.edu
Physics Department, Kerr Hall http://debussy.ucsc.edu/~dummkopf
University of California Phone: (+1) 831-459-4762
Santa Cruz, CA 95064, USA Fax: (+1) 831-459-3043
-----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:19:09 -0700
From: Makarand Kulkarni <makkulka@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
Subject: Re: File Permissions
Message-Id: <37A6357D.B984B23E@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
==
You will benefit from reading man pages for 'chmod' and
the intro for file permissions in any Unix introductory
text. This Question in not perl language specific.
==
> And if it's not, to change it, the problem is, that I don't know what
> is the octal form of this, like
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:35:35 +1000
From: e-lephant@b-igpond.com (elephant)
Subject: Re: File Permissions
Message-Id: <MPG.1210e4631a8a750a989bbc@news-server>
NiteFever writes the following about chmod ..
> ...the problem is, that I don't know what
>is the octal form of this...
-
> Any help would be great..
man chmod
or if you're not on UNIX then find yourself a good web based collection
of UNIX man pages .. I use the following site when my laptop is out of
reach
http://hegel.ittc.ukans.edu/topics/linux/man-pages/index.html
--
jason - remove all hyphens for email reply -
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:05:35 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: General question about CHMOD
Message-Id: <slrn7qcchd.rb1.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
llornkcor@earthlink.net (llornkcor@earthlink.net) wrote on MMCLXII
September MCMXCIII in <URL:news:wkiu6xhor4.fsf@earthlink.net>:
@@ ahh- but this DOES have something to do with perl. You must chmod ANY
@@ perl script to get it to run on unix systems, right???
Wrong.
@@ anyway- to kindly answer your question, chmod 777 IS a security risk,
@@ giving read, write, and execute permission to EVERYONE in the whole
@@ world. That means, anyone could delete any PERL scripts. chmod 775 is
Only those with an access to the machine (be it legitimate or not).
@@ better, and chmod 755 even better, depending on just who you are.
Abigail
--
perl -MNet::Dict -we '(Net::Dict -> new (server => "dict.org")
-> define ("foldoc", "perl")) [0] -> print'
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:20:44 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: General question about CHMOD
Message-Id: <37a643ec@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
llornkcor@earthlink.net (llornkcor@earthlink.net) writes:
:ahh- but this DOES have something to do with perl. You must chmod ANY
:perl script to get it to run on unix systems, right???
"have to"? No, but it's convenient to do so.
:anyway- to kindly answer your question, chmod 777 IS a security risk,
:giving read, write, and execute permission to EVERYONE in the whole
:world. That means, anyone could delete any PERL scripts.
I think you've confused write permissions, which the files st_stat field
bequeaths directly, and delete permissions, which will be found int the
directory's stat field of the same name. Please review your basic
systems skills before giving out more wrong answers. It just confuses
people.
And what's "PERL"? No such word.
--tom
--
An Intelligent terminal is not a smart-ass terminal; it is one you can educate.
--Rob Pike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:03:00 +1000
From: e-lephant@b-igpond.com (elephant)
Subject: Re: Help - Perl/CGI on MS Personal Web Server.
Message-Id: <MPG.1210dcbef39247a5989bb9@news-server>
Nico Zigouras writes ..
>I am having problems configuring MS PWS for Perl/CGI. I can run Perl fine
>from command line. I think i associated the .pl extension with it OK.
I hope you get flamed badly by all those MS groups you crossposted to ..
you really need to learn how to determine what group to post to
this question gets asked (especially recently - are Microsoft having a
PWS push or something ?) a number of times a day .. do a search on my
previous replies on this topic (the post was yesterday - the thread was
"Perl and pws"
--
jason - remove all hyphens for email reply -
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:18:27 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: help running Perl Scripts in win95
Message-Id: <37a64363@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
llornkcor@earthlink.net (llornkcor@earthlink.net) writes:
:hehehe- funny answer... God module, I like that.... :o)
:
:to the original poster-you also might see if Front Page extensions are
:installed on your server, if thats what the sfript is using.
whaffa sfcipt, what waffa ferver?
[ FORTY-FOUR fricking lines of quoted Jeopardy text deleted ]
.answers their with questions precede and, summarize and triM
.work take would it but, harder tried you if annoying more be
probably could you, know uoY.
--tom
--
"A ship then new they built for him/of mithril and of elven glass"
--Larry Wall in perl.c from the v5.0 perl distribution,
citing Bilbo from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:07:10 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: How can I know what modules are installed on server?
Message-Id: <slrn7qcckb.rb1.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
99% Energy (dnor@hiline.net) wrote on MMCLXII September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:ouop3.23$k8.8951@newscene.newscene.com>:
-- Hello,
--
-- I am trying to run a script that uses CGI, PWL, etc libraries in a web
-- hosting server. I downloaded the libraries from CPAN and installed them in
-- my computer, which runs win98. The script that uses these additional
-- libraries runs fine in my computer.
--
-- I uploaded the script to the web hosting server (www.icom.com) and the
-- script failed. I uploaded the libraries to the cgi-bin\lib directory (I had
-- to create the directory) and the script still failed. I am tempted to
-- butcher the library modules and make a large script with all the functions
-- but I know this is not the right solution.
--
-- Other scripts which do not use library modules run fine on the server.
--
-- How can I tell what modules are installed on a server? How can I replicate
-- the library enviroment in my machine so it is the same as on the server so I
-- won't run into these type of complications?
RTFFAQ.
-- BTW, I do not have Telnet access to the server, only FTP.
Not our problem.
Abigail
--
perl5.004 -wMMath::BigInt -e'$^V=Math::BigInt->new(qq]$^F$^W783$[$%9889$^F47]
.qq]$|88768$^W596577669$%$^W5$^F3364$[$^W$^F$|838747$[8889739$%$|$^F673$%$^W]
.qq]98$^F76777$=56]);$^U=substr($]=>$|=>5)*(q.25..($^W=@^V))=>do{print+chr$^V
%$^U;$^V/=$^U}while$^V!=$^W'
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 20:27:55 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: How to determine a date in the past
Message-Id: <slrn7qchbo.rb1.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
elephant (e-lephant@b-igpond.com) wrote on MMCLXII September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:MPG.1210c30a9ba3df6e989bb1@news-server>:
\\
\\ the other case - as I think Abigail demonstrated - is the fact that the
\\ time functions all ignore leap seconds - so if you try to go back 100
\\ years in seconds per day - then you're out by a considerable margin
Quite the opposite. If you are only intested in the date, the fact leap
seconds are ignored will only help you. (Besides, less than 60 leap
seconds have happened since they were defined in the 50s, so you're off
by less than a minute.)
My point was that going back 100 years in seconds will not work on
systems with where time is kept using a 32 bit integer, and an epoch
of Jan 1, 1970. At least, not now. (It will after 2001 though - but it
will never do 150 years.)
\\ Date::Manip is an excellent module for taking bizarre times and dates -
\\ especially human entered - and parsing them .. when you don't know your
\\ input it's a dream come true
I use Date::Manip so I can make weekly reports called like:
report --start 'one week ago' --end 'yesterday'
And I don't really care if it takes 2 seconds longer; it's called in the
middle of the night from cron anyway.
Abigail
--
srand 123456;$-=rand$_--=>@[[$-,$_]=@[[$_,$-]for(reverse+1..(@[=split
//=>"IGrACVGQ\x02GJCWVhP\x02PL\x02jNMP"));print+(map{$_^q^"^}@[),"\n"
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:54:54 +1000
From: e-lephant@b-igpond.com (elephant)
Subject: Re: How to determine a date in the past
Message-Id: <MPG.1210f6fd680dc74e989bc1@news-server>
Abigail writes ..
>Quite the opposite. If you are only intested in the date, the fact leap
>seconds are ignored will only help you. (Besides, less than 60 leap
>seconds have happened since they were defined in the 50s, so you're off
>by less than a minute.)
>
>My point was that going back 100 years in seconds will not work on
>systems with where time is kept using a 32 bit integer, and an epoch
>of Jan 1, 1970. At least, not now. (It will after 2001 though - but it
>will never do 150 years.)
aah .. ok .. I didn't bother to work out why your example didn't do what
I expected .. just assumed it must have something to do with the leap
second thing (actually even at the time I was surprised at the inaccuracy
over just 100 years)
>\\ Date::Manip is an excellent module for taking bizarre times and dates -
>\\ especially human entered - and parsing them .. when you don't know your
>\\ input it's a dream come true
>
>I use Date::Manip so I can make weekly reports called like:
> report --start 'one week ago' --end 'yesterday'
yeah .. in those situations it's just magic .. and worth the performance
hit
--
jason - remove all hyphens for email reply -
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:13:58 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: How to: run a DOS batch in perl/cgi?
Message-Id: <37a64256@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
llornkcor <llornkcor@llornkcor.com> writes:
:Have you tried the perl command system? This mightwork.
What's the "perl command system"? Is that like for a jet fighter?
Pilot to Mission Control: What are these blinkenlichts?
Mission Control to Pilot: PREPARE TO DUMP CORE!
--tom
--
"Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
"Mr. Cthulhu, will you please spit out that Investigator and speak clearly?"
- Kieran Mullen
------------------------------
Date: 03 Aug 1999 01:56:37 GMT
From: cltcevans@aol.com (CLTCEvans)
Subject: mutiple shells running one app
Message-Id: <19990802215637.05077.00002959@ng-cl1.aol.com>
How would I write a block of code so that if a condition returns true, the perl
script executes a program mutiple times? i have the condition statement, but i
cant get multiple copies of a program to run at once. do i need a fork?
mutiple system calls? i would appreciate the actual code if anyone can give it
to me cause I have no idea what it would be like. i have tried everything i
can think of.
PerlLinux@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:04:55 +1000
From: e-lephant@b-igpond.com (elephant)
Subject: Re: newbabie, file's of 24 lines?
Message-Id: <MPG.1210dd2f1483c80d989bba@news-server>
ezzi writes ..
>I've only been programming in perl for two week. I'm having a problem with
>read a file of 24 lines long. thankz, for any help.
yeah .. there's a problem with reading 24 line files .. increase the size
of the file to 25 lines for correct operation
oh .. and check that bug on line 17 of your code
--
jason - remove all hyphens for email reply -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 18:35:52 -0700
From: Makarand Kulkarni <makkulka@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
Subject: Re: perl code can't work
Message-Id: <37A64778.9E8BE0D0@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
[ kee wrote..]
> Ii use ie4 to view the html file, when i click the GO button, it just
> shows the source code of the test.pl file, like ....
>
You have to make CGI programs available to the
webserver. You cannot have then on the
machine that has IE4 unless you have
the webserver on the same machine as the browser.
If in your case the browser and the webserver
are on the same machine then you will have to
configure the webserver to recognize CGI programs.
Also you might want to enclose your text in HTML tags
for display purposes.
--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:46:19 +0200
From: "Emulov" <emulov@NOSPAMsin.khk.be>
Subject: Perl or CGI
Message-Id: <7o5e4b$ee6$1@nickel.uunet.be>
Hi.
I'm thinking of learning Perl or CGI. But I don't have a clear idea of
what's the difference between them. If I want to write a program that takes
form input on my website and write that to some other file, on the server
(UNIX), what do I use best?
Thanx.
*** Emulov ***
emulov@sin.khk.be
*** Emulov's Computer Centre ***
http://www.sin.khk.be/~emulov
*** the Programming Section ***
http://www.sin.khk.be/~emulov/progr_section
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:45:48 -0700
From: Makarand Kulkarni <makkulka@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
Subject: Re: Perl or CGI
Message-Id: <37A63BBC.B1D226D2@cisco.REMOVETHIS.com>
[Emulov wrote.. ]
> I'm thinking of learning Perl or CGI. But I don't have a clear idea of
> what's the difference between them.
You can use any language like C/c++/JAVA/shell etc to write CGI
programs. You need not stick to PERL unless you want
to make your life easy.
-
Makarand Kulkarni
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 22:18:21 GMT
From: mwang@tech.cicg.ml.com (Michael Wang)
Subject: pod2man question
Message-Id: <7o55fd$bee$1@news.ml.com>
what pod2man does:
bless REF,CLASSNAME
bless REF
This function tells the thingy referenced by REF
that it is now an object in the CLASSNAME package--
alarm SECONDS
alarm Arranges to have a SIGALRM delivered to this process
after the specified number of seconds have elapsed.
what I want pod2man to do:
bless REF,CLASSNAME
bless REF
This function tells the thingy referenced by REF
that it is now an object in the CLASSNAME package--
alarm SECONDS
alarm
Arranges to have a SIGALRM delivered to this process
after the specified number of seconds have elapsed.
Any ideas? Thanks.
--
Michael Wang
http://www.mindspring.com/~mwang
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 00:23:46 GMT
From: Floyd Morrissette <Webdesigner@NewWebSite.com>
Subject: Re: Problem reading forms with perl
Message-Id: <7o5cq9$g3o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <7o4v5f$685$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
genelong@my-deja.com wrote:
I have tried
>
> $text =~ s/</xxx/g
>
> but it doesn't seem to find anything to do the substitution.
>
Try something like:
$text =~ s/<//g
$text =~ s/>//g
This replaces both < and > with nothing.
--
Get your web site from http://www.NewWebSite.com
Consultation is always free.
Help with cgi scripts.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 19:12:47 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with spam in this group
Message-Id: <37a6420f@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
llornkcor@earthlink.net (llornkcor@earthlink.net) writes:
:SPAM is sent through the newsgroup servers, I believe. I just ignore
:them.
Don't be silly. Spam is generally considered unsolicited bult email.
Mail is sent through mail servers. News is sent through news servers.
No relation here. After I'm done with my little time travel trip,
I'll've send you some helpful definitions ot help you understand
words like "spam".
--tom
--
"Since when did you hear people talk about writing LISP or BASIC *scripts*?
JCL and shell make command *scripts*; perl and LISP make *programs*." --me
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:01:37 -0400
From: rennie@electric-web.com
Subject: qq construct
Message-Id: <37A64D93.D34C03A0@electric-web.com>
I have some perl code that will print out HTML using the qq~ and qq!
constuct. However, when i add javascript to the html portion of the perl
cgi, the qq~ and qq! doesn't work. . I checked my perl reference books
and could not find a soltution to my simple problem. Is there another
qq(constuct that I could try)
here is some of the code
--- code begins here -----
sub product_page_header
{
local ($page_title) = @_;
local ($hidden_fields) = &make_hidden_fields;
print qq~
<html>
<head>
<meta name="generator" content="GoLive CyberStudio 3">
<title>Delancey Treasures</title>
<script language="JavaScript">
<!--
function sitechange(move)
{ var d =
move.options[move.selectedIndex].value;
top.location.href = d;
move.selectedIndex=0;
}
function moveme() {
window.location="web_store.cgi?page=menorahs.html&cart_id="
}
//-->
</script>
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" text="black" link="blue" vlink="blue"
alink="blue">
<center>
<p><table border="0" width="600" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td align="left" width="100%"><!---Logo--->
<table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="top"><img src="images/new_logo.jpg"
border="0" width="464" height="47"></td>
<td width="100" align="right" valign="top"><font face="Arial"
size="1"><b>212-254-0977<br>
1-800-555-1212</b></font></td>
</tr>
</table><!---site navigation--->
<img src="images/unique_2.jpg" width="600" height="21"
align="top"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td align="left" width="1"><img src="images/new_nav.jpg"
width="600" height="21" border="0" usemap="#map"><map name="map"><area
coords="520,3,585,13" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=corporate.html&cart_id="><area
coords="454,3,509,13" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=specials.html&cart_id="><area
coords="392,4,438,14" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=pesach.html&cart_id="><area
coords="326,5,377,17" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=candles.html&cart_id="><area
coords="255,4,311,15" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=menorahs.html&cart_id="><area
coords="179,3,242,18" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=meuzas.html&cart_id="><area
coords="128,6,166,15" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=gifts.html&cart_id="><area
coords="111,64,173,75" shape="rect" href="index.html"><area
coords="91,44,153,55" shape="rect" href="index.html"><area
coords="71,24,133,35" shape="rect" href="index.html"><area
coords="51,4,113,15" shape="rect"
href="web_store.cgi?page=about.html&cart_id="><area coords="0,6,37,16"
shape="rect" href="web_store.cgi?page=index.html&cart_id="></map></td>
</tr>
</table><table width="100%" bgcolor="white" cellpadding="2">
<tr>
<td width="25%" valign="top" bgcolor="#ceceff">
<center>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><b>Categories</b></font><font
size="2"><b> </b></font><font size="2"><br>
<form method="post" action="web_store.cgi">
<select size="1" width="50" name="goto"
ONCHANGE="sitechange(this);">
<option selected>--Select--
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=index.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Home
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=gifts.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Gifts
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=mezuzas.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Mezuzas
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=menorahs.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Menorahs
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=candles.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Candles
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=mezuzas.html&cart_id=$cart_id" >Pesach
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=specials.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Specials
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=corporate.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Corporate
<option
value="web_store.cgi?page=contact.html&cart_id=$cart_id">Contact
<hr noshade>
</font><table border="2" width="80%">
<tr>
<td valign="middle" bgcolor="white">
<center>
<h2><font face="Arial" color="red"><b>Free Bag of
Rugelach</b></font> </h2>
</center>
<div align="left">
<p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="white"><b><img
src="brochure/rugelach.gif" width="100" height="141" border="1"
bordercolor="000000"></b></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="black"><b>With every
purchase from the famous Gertels Bakery. The oldest and finest Kosher
bakery in NYC.</b></font></div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size="2">
<hr noshade>
</font></p>
<p><font size="2"><!---Delancey--->
</font><a href="http://www.babka.com"><font face="Arial"
size="2"><b>See Delancey Desserts</b></font></a><font face="Arial"
size="2"><br>
</font><font face="Arial" size="2" color="black"><b>If you
love Rugelach and other Kosher pastries, then check out the famous
Delancey Dessert Bakery. Retailer for all of Gertels Baked goods. Find
everything from Sugar Cookies to delicous Chocalate Babka. You sure will
love it</b></font><font size="2" color="black"><b>. </b></font></center>
</td>
<td width="72%" valign="top">
<!---begin content--->
<font face="Arial" size="3">
~;
# end of code
Thanks ,
Ray Alba
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 18:11:25 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Quoting Strategies and the Jeopardy Game
Message-Id: <37a633ad@cs.colorado.edu>
The following message will be posted periodically until observed
clue-levels in these parts improve, or until the heat death of the
Universe arrives.
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
To send better messages, please trim and summarize what you're
replying to, and integrate your quoted text with the body of your
message. Don't just put everything at the end. This isn't Jeopardy.
People expect question-and-answer, not answer-and-question responses.
LONG STORY:
Wouldn't you like to make your messages easier for others to read and
understand? If so, I have some news posting tips for you. If not,
just ignore this. (Of course, if you don't want your messages
easier to read and understand, it's not clear why to bother to
send them in the first place. :-) I'm going to take a bit of
time to explain this, because newcomers to Usenet often lack the
cultural background were I to send a superbrief message.
Here's the issue: you appear to have quoted the entire message to which
you were replying. Worst of all, you have done so by merely appending
the complete message at the bottom. Folks are used to reading the
original material first, then the follow-up. That's why it's called a
"follow-up", you know. :-)
If all you want to do is forward a copy of the message, that's one thing,
but here you seem to have just blindly pasted the complete old message at
the end without providing any content. This is neither a proper public
followup nor even a decent private reply. Here's why.
First of all, this is massive overkill -- you're supposed to trim your
quoted text to only what you're replying to. Otherwise you'll probably
violate the netiquette target quoting percentage of 50%. See below.
This isn't really an issue of space (I know that a few bytes here and
there mean less today than 20 years go), so much as it is of integrating
your comments with the old material for continuity.
Second, putting everything at the bottom does little good. It doesn't
provide the proper context. It's far too late. When you reply to
someone's content, the reason you quote the previous message is so that
you can provide some degree of contextual continuity. The best way to
do this is to interleave what you're quoting with your responses to that
particular piece. That means that you should provide a quoted portion,
then address what the points therein, then another quoted section, etc.
For example, here's how followup replies *should* look if you'd
like them to be more effective.
> Joe said we should eat noodles.
But I don't like noodles. They are a pain to prepare -- remember
that what started this thread was how to cook using only a microwave,
not real cooking -- and they provide you with very little sustenance
in the long run. It's like eating cardboard, nutritionally speaking.
> He also suggests adding anchovies.
What is this fish fetish? Not all of us like the little minnows
with the lingering briny taste swimming around our mouths for the
next few hours or days. Can you imagine this on a date? Iccccch!
Notice how in the text above, alternate quoted passages are interleaved
with new response text. Notice also that the new text far exceeds the
old text. This is the way it should be.
If you are receiving this message in response to a news posting, please
understand that all modern newsreaders provide a mechanism to fetch
the parent article, so it is seldom necessary to quote the whole thing.
Sometimes even mail readers provide this, depending on the mail headers
and the list archival mechanism on your own system.
Here's a section from the essential netiquette guide, "A Primer
on How to Work With the Usenet Community", which is available in
news.announce.newusers. Perhaps your service provider neglected to point
you at this newsgroup before you got swallowed up by all of Usenet.
It's not only a good read; it's critical to understanding the culture
you're now moving in.
Summarize What You are Following Up.
When you are following up someone's article, please summarize the
parts of the article to which you are responding. This allows readers
to appreciate your comments rather than trying to remember what the
original article said. It is also possible for your response to get
to some sites before the original article.
Summarization is best done by including appropriate quotes from
the original article. Do not include the entire article since it
will irritate the people who have already seen it. Even if you are
responding to the entire article, summarize only the major points you
are discussing.
It's even more annoying when people needlessly quote the original's
automatic trailing matter, like signatures, adverts, or disclaimers.
Please don't do that.
I'm honestly not trying to annoy you! I'm just trying to give tips
about what works well in electronic messages, and what doesn't. This
used to be standard fare before one got a Usenet account, but now
something seems to be lost.
--
There is always a better way.
-- Thomas Edison
------------------------------
Date: 2 Aug 1999 18:18:22 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Quoting Strategies and the Jeopardy Game
Message-Id: <37a6354e@cs.colorado.edu>
Here's the cron line, wrapped to keep within tolerable a screen width:
25 3 * * 3,5,7 * /usr/local/bin/inews -h <
/home/tchrist/News/periodic/quoted-end
--tom
--
"If you only have a nail, you tend to see every hammer as a problem."
--Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
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To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
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To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
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The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
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perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
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The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
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For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 341
*************************************
