[9049] in Commercialization & Privatization of the Internet
Re: Bad message address
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Stephen Williams)
Wed Dec 15 10:11:57 1993
From: sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams)
To: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 10:11:24 -0500 (EST)
Cc: com-priv@psi.com
In-Reply-To: <m0p9i49-000EotC@mercury.mcs.com> from "Karl Denninger" at Dec 14, 93 04:18:00 pm
...
> > Are they specifically not part of that? If traffic is routed 'without
> > discrimination', what precludes other arrangements? Is it implied
> > that billing agents are prohibited? (In some arrangements, it
> > wouldn't amount to much more than that.)
>
> Nope. It doesn't preclude it, but it is also doesn't mandate it.
>
> > I would really like to see a clear consensus. If I can't afford a T1,
> > it's unlikely that I'm going to want to pay $10,000. I want small
> > providers to be viable so they can grow into large ones.
>
> You first have to find national providers who are willing to permit these
> small kinds of arrangements. Months ago I was told a cold "NO" from Alternet
> on exactly this request. This despite the fact that their contract has
> NOTHING to say on a prohibition regarding resale.
>
> PSI's basic position was about the same.
>
> Both of these are about you competing with the folks selling you the pipe.
I know about these.
> Sprint and ANS are the only two who I have found with a reasonable policy
> on this.
Oarnet and Cerfnet seem to waver also. Oarnet seems more cautious
(they recently told me that bbs's are ok, ip subnet routing probably
isn't, and they never got back to me about whether proxy services were
ok (meaning my clients would connect to a socket on my system which
converted the connection to a real Internet connection, hopefully with
cacheing, etc.)). Cerfnet, if I understand correctly, will allow
routing but they charge for each customer added. I kindof like this,
since it still allows me to add value and also act as a billing
agent/aggregator. By indirectly charging, they are probably better
off than if those customers were separate and giving the NOC a hard
time. Not to mention that a bbs/LIG probably has mostly customers
that wouldn't be connected otherwise.
What is the current policy of SprintLink and ANS? I called Sprint
several times during last year as they brought it to market and all
they said was 'no restrictions, any use'. Sounds good to me.
It sounds like you are implying Sprint will work with you on this.
ANS I know all about, unfortunately. I would have always leaned
toward a clean commercial company anyway, but ANS is sure being beat
on. I do know of a client with a couple of connections with ANS where
ANS beat Sprint, PSI, Alternet, and even Oarnet (on price).
...
> > > damning.
> >
> > IMHO, it's not in the spirit of internet, whatever that means, to not
> > route. It's also potentially very damaging. From what little I know
> > about telephony from the beginning of the century, I believe that many
> > of the competing providers were forced out of business by the larger
> > providers in each market siding with the gov. I believe this happened
> > because they didn't voluntarily 'route' calls.
>
> That's a function of the no settlement policy of the CIX. With that in
> place, either you have the providers ponying up to the bar or the funding
> model falls apart and dies.
Would you mind telling me (public or private) what your arrangements
were in the beginning? I assume that you've 'ponied up' now, but I
doubt that was the first bill you paid getting started.
> Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.COM) | MCSNet - First Interactive Internet and
> Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | Clarinet feed in Chicago. Send email to
> Voice/FAX: [+1 312 248-8649] | "info@mcs.com" for more information.
BTW, I completely agree that once you are large enough you should pay
your dues (so-to-speak). I think CIX's model is great.
sdw
--
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