[8562] in Commercialization & Privatization of the Internet
Invasion of the Network Snatchers
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Tansin A. Darcos & Company)
Mon Nov 22 18:36:14 1993
Date: Mon, Nov 22, 1993, 17:03:00 (-0500)
From: Tansin A. Darcos & Company <0005066432@mcimail.com>
To: Karl Denninger <karl@mcs.com>,
>From: Paul Robinson <TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM>
Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA
-----
Karl Denninger < karl@mcs.com>, writes on subject: SPRY & Sprint
> >Digital News & Review, NOVEMBER 8,1993..
> >
> >`Internet in a box' due from Spry
> >
> >SEATTLE - Spry Inc. later this month is expected to announce
> >"Internet in a Box," software and telephone carrier service from
> >Sprint that promises to let users connect directly to the Internet
> >without purchasing a subsription to an Internet access providers.
> >Users will be able to buy the software and services combination fro
> >local retailers, much like how CompuServe markets its software, a
> >spokesman says. Pricing and availability were not available at pres
> >time.
>
> "Without purchasing a subscription to an Internet access provider"?
>
> Excuse me, but what is SPRINT if not a provider in this category?
I think that your comment is close, and shows that they are
using the wrong term here. Perhaps what they mean is Sprint
is an Internet Provider; they sell you raw pipe. Perhaps what
they mean by "Internet Access Provider" is some company like
Clark or Digital Express or your own service that runs its own
hardware and software to allow the user to use a modem and
talk to easier to use front ends.
This system allows me to put an 80386 up and run my own telnet,
Domain Name, NNTP as well as other services. I've heard some
people on alt.internet.access.wanted complain that every time
they get a good MUD (Multi User Dungeon) going, the admin shuts
it down because of the overhead on the host site; well, if the
mud is operated by the OWNER of the host site, then nobody else
has any say in the matter.
> Second, let me make some general commentary.
>
NO! We won't let you! :)
> This has the potential to be one of the things which changes
> forever the topology and free access provisions of the current
> Internet providers.
Well, 13 months from now under federal laws, almost anyone can
start their own telephone company and provide dial tone. Some
of these people will make money, and some will lose their
shirts, just like when the Long Distance Market opened. So we
essentially end up with 3 companies instead of 1, about 5 lower
level companies and a whole pack of tiny little companies. We
may eventually see the same thing where your local phone service
can be selected from 3 different companies and the prices and
services will be different.
If there is an explosion in availability of service, then it
will make the available service less expensive and easier to
use. Right now, putting up a BBS is not too difficult, and
there are almost certainly over 100,000 of them in the U.S., as
we argued on the subject a few months back.
But putting a private site on Internet at best is only reasonably
priced availability if you want to install a SLIP connection,
and pay about $140 a month and $700 to install it. (Current
price from one supplier for a permanent slip connection on a
dedicated line.) When someone can get a real 56K feed for that,
or for the cost of a phone line, service is going to explode.
> For years those of us who provide access gave something back
> to the community. Whether it be an anonymous FTP archive
> (UUNET), DNS services (MCSNet and many others), mail routing,
> Usenet, or other services, part of the reason the net works as
> it does is that the companies who sell service also provide
> something of value to the community in general. We also, in
> general, localize services to a great extent (post offices,
> NNTP Servers, etc) to defray inter-system traffic. This is a
> <good thing>. It is the primary reason that the net works as
> it does, and as well as it does.
Well, don't forget, if these are inexpensive services, it
means that they will run the TCP/IP stack as a background
task, which means that the service on these sites will be
more-or-less on most of the time.
> Now, what do you think happens if SPRINT plays "telephone
> company" <ONLY> and starts directing those who buy this
> package to the open NNTP, FTP and other servers on the
> Internet? Oh, and where do you get your POPMail from?
>
> I can guess what will happen. Those freely available services
> out there will either (1) close up to prevent overload, or (2)
> start asking for money. There goes your "no need for an ISP"
> model right out the window, AND it screws <the rest of us> in
> the process.
Well, it depends on how bad the "imminent death of the network"
occurs. :) When BBS systems first came out, they ran as
standalone entities because getting them to work was enough.
As these people started passing messages with one another,
others got the idea of setting up networks with each other and
sending their conferences from site to site. So they set up
their own ad-hoc private networks where mail and messages are
transferred from system to system by telephone.
I suspect that some of the larger BBS networks will be the
first to move onto the Internet and encourage some of the
intermediate hubs to go on the internet in order to reduce
telephone traffic that they are paying for, by changing either
to NNTP or SMTP delivery of messages from the private networks
they are using now.
Despite all the claims, this stuff ain't easy or simple. Only
the technically oriented will be involved. (Despite the
amount people criticize Prodigy, it has certainly changed the
way people communicate by modem.) And most people who use
computers can't handle all the requirements of settings for a
modem; you think they are going to put up with TCP/IP stack
complexities? We are still Unix Style "razor sharp and
dangerous," and I doubt that we can expect a major "invasion
of the network snatchers" anytime soon. :)
> You can say "but this happens today". True. There is a
> significant difference in degree. Today it is a low-scale,
> low-impact problem for most providers <because most people
> have a "home" to log into>. Tomorrow, especially if this
> product hits the shelves of mass-marketers <with the implied
> or stated promise that you can just use all the "free"
> services>, that won't be the case.
> You'll have several thousand new net surfers with NO place
> to call home, NO local NNTP service, NO local Post Office, and
> NO local resolvers to call on. They're going to go out and
> start trying to hit all these <free> services.
Well, my thought is that this is a possiblity if all of these
people are totally innocent of the culture of the network and
know nothing about it. And it will probably only last for a
short while if it does.
If this does happen, when the services aren't there, people
will complain and others will do something, some groups are
going to get together and put up their own servers and handle
the news and mail for their groups, and the culture will
encourage their correspondents to use these sites to pick up
their mail from if they do not leave their computer on 24
hours. If their computer is on all the time, nothing says
they can't just accept SMTP mail directly.
NNTP service is definitely a matter that will have to be
covered, because very few sites can afford to store the 75
megabytes of mail generated every day on the Internet. But
some groups could afford to cooperate to set up a group
storage space for them all to use. If people see that
cooperating with each other brings them more long-term value
than being a sponge, they will do so.
> The Net exists in its present form BECAUSE it is a
> cooperative venture to some degree. When that ceases to
> be the case we'll still have a net, but the character and
> nature of it will change.
Everything changes to keep up with technology. The extremely
popular sites may start charging to reduce load, but what may
happen is that there may be more sites willing to shed the
load off to them. Another possibility in reducing FTP loads
is the work done in URN's where a file is assigned an URN, and
you issue a generic request to the nearest URN server and it
gives you the best address for you to request it, or it gives
you several and you ask them how they are doing, and they tell
you, and you pick the one with the best response time; if this
is done in software, the software can go out and do the FTP
using the least congested route.
What we need are smarter agents to decrease the load.
> I like the idea of a "navigator" like Spry's offering. I'm
> sure there is a market for Spry's product -- it is integrated
> and, from what I've heard, nicely written.
>
> The idea that you can "toss your Internet provider" is nonsense and
> polit-speak, and further is dangerous to the near-universal
> connectivity that we all now enjoy.
I think you are taking things a little too far. Sellers always
overstate the ease of a technology and downplay the risks and
inconvenience of it; that's their job and knowledgeable buyers
are supposed to be aware of it. Car dealers sell cars, they
don't tell you about maintenance, insurance, parking, tickets,
and all the other hassles.
The clerks who sell computers won't tell you about the
conflicts between Microsoft Windows and drivers, or devices,
or why some things work and some don't, and so on, and so on,
and so on. Once they dump the machine on you, all the hassles
of using it are yours.
> I predict that Spry's customers are in for a big surprise a
> few months down the road if they actually rely on that little
> statement above, and Sprint and Spry end up with a few
> thousand (or tens of thousands) of customers who think they
> don't need anything other than transport service out of the
> deal from Sprint and software from Spry.
I think we should accept a plea of "nolo contendre" here.
Consider how many people have bought computers only to have
them either end up on the shelf somewhere or given to second
hand stores, pawn shops or handed down to others. Or
companies that buy the latest and greatest technology and then
two years later, are out buying new stuff, their "latest and
greatest" ending up in the warehouse because they aren't fully
depreciated?
If your comments are half right, thousands of these kits will
sell, a few months of flurry as people who don't know what they
are doing crowd the network asking stupid questions, and then
most of them disappear.
In the BBS circuit, these are called the "Christmas Users".
Kids who get their first modem at 10-14 and go on the air for
the first time. THEY POST WAY COOL STUFF DUDEZ!!! IN ALL CAPS!!!
AND THEY SHOW HOW IGORENT THEY ARE BY CRITESIZING OTHER PEOPULS
MSISPELLINGS. AND THE BADNESS OF THE IDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IN
SKOOL!!! AND YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW NOTHIN CAUSE YOU HAVEN'T
TRIED THE KICK ASS MUD AT <insert address here, that 15 minutes
after they posted it, is shut down by admin>.
The ones who stay will probably grow up to become excellent
citizens of the Net.
---
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Paul Robinson - TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM
Voted "Largest Polluter of the (IETF) list" by Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
-----
The following Automatic Fortune Cookie was selected only for this message:
He's not very good at some things. He can cure AIDS and raise
the dead, but he _still_ can't install Microsoft Windows!
