[45] in Athena User Interface
Re: sawfish configuration
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Maciej Stachowiak)
Thu May 18 02:43:00 2000
To: Brad Thompson <yak@MIT.EDU>
Cc: Greg Hudson <ghudson@MIT.EDU>, aui@MIT.EDU
From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@eazel.com>
Date: 18 May 2000 00:45:11 -0700
In-Reply-To: Brad Thompson's message of "Thu, 18 May 2000 00:40:34 -0400"
Message-Id: <lq4s7ws3nc.fsf@pythagoras.eazel.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Some random comments:
Brad Thompson <yak@MIT.EDU> writes:
> > I would pick just one modifier. This is fine as a shortcut, but I
> > think there should also be a menu option to do this.
>
> I'm not sure which menu you are talking about: is it the WM menu or the
> gnome menu? I believe it is a worthwhile goal to eliminate window
> manager menus. I considered the modifier-button-click to be a
> compromise between getting rid of the functionality and putting up a
> confusing button in the title bar. Since writing the original mail, I
> have come up with another solution, which I believe at this point to be
> better than the alternatives.
Consider also the fact that destroy-type operations (the equivalent of
XKillClient()) are evil anyway. Maybe it is a good thing not to make
it easily accessible from the UI, since it is primarily a way for
users to hurt themselves. An operation that at least tries a clean
close before resorting to XKillClient would be slightly less bad.
Also, having any functionality provided only by having to hold down a
modifier while clicking a button is bad UI because it is
undiscoverable. Providing dangerous functionality (like "destroy") in
this way is even worse because users might accidentally shoot
themselves in the foot with no warning.
> In my opinion, being consistent with win98 should be our second-to-last
> priority (consistency with macos should be last). The side of a window
> is hard to click on; I want it to move the window not because it will
> be terribly useful, but because when it _is_ used, it should do the
> Right Thing. On the other hand, if the corners are the only way to
> resize a window, then they should be easy to click on. I promise to
> pay attention to this---it annoys me, too.
Sides should resize. Sides moving the window is annoying and not what
most users will expect. Don't design defaults for thousands of users
based on your own unusual personal tastes. You are more likely to have
the clues needed to change the default settings than they are. Sides
resize on win9x and NT for what it's worth.
Consistency with other GUIs should be a consideration, because the
most intuitive interface is the one you already know. But of course,
doing it right is more important than doing it the same.
> > The others are fine, as long as changes made by sawmill-ui can be made
> > effective without restarting sawfish.
>
> I believe sawmill-ui changes are effective when you click "Apply",
> "OK", or something like that. While I'm ranting about UI's, "Apply"
> buttons are the tool of the devil.
I think the future of configuration technology in GNOME is that
settings will take effect as soon as you change the individual
control. There will be some sort of "Undo" to let you back out.
- Maciej
