[604] in libertarians
Re: strange posting
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Travis Corcoran)
Fri Feb 3 19:12:37 1995
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 14:46:25 EST
From: tjic@ICD.teradyne.com (Travis Corcoran)
To: moakler@ICD.teradyne.com
Cc: dzurik@elf.stuba.sk, damartin@volta.mit.edu, libertarians@MIT.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9502031902.AA26039@difrel.ICD.Teradyne.COM> (moakler@difrel)
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 14:02:14 EST
> From: moakler@difrel (Kathryn Moakler )
>
>
> Call me crazy,
OK. But let me destroy your argument before I mock you personally. ;)
> if you think about the fact that government is _not_ forthcoming
> with info about alien encounters... this is yet another example of
> over-governing.
The government is also not forthcoming with information about flying
pigs. This does not necessarilly mean that they have such information
and choose not to diseminate it it; a much easier explanation is that
no such information exists.
> I find it _very_ difficult to believe that _all_ these alien
> sightings, landings, and 'abductions' are ficticious.
I don't.
While I think that the mathematical chances that non-human life exists
in th universe are good, I think the chances that such life has
already contacted some of the people of Earth is very low. But this
is a side issue which we shouldn't clutter this list with.
> Personally, I find it comforting to think of the possiblity that:
>
> a. [ ... ] our government might have to answer to a more
> intellectually and technically advanced body of beings, i.e. some
> sort of 'Galactic Government', someday.
If they've got a government they couldn't be *THAT* advanced, could
they? ;)
But on this thread...it would be much more entertaining to see 1st
contact followed by a committe of alien traders, engineers and
colonists forming an impromptu "People's Jury" and trying the members
of the governments of the world for the crime of being members of
governments.
> Of course, I'm assuming that if they are more advanced, they
> couldn't have gotten that way through socialist beliefs and
> practices.
As long as socialist forces are not overwhelming progress can still be
made. Technology and science advanced in the Soviet Union (although
not as fast as in the West, and with much more human suffering).
Technology advances in the West, even though we live under a "mixed
system" composed largely of government intervention and regulation.
There is also no reason that a culture could not be non-socialist,
develop technology, and then have a socialist revolution (either
peaceful or violent).
Further, the concept that there are certain stages of government that
cultures inevitably move through is not new with you...I think Marx
came upon it first... (read _The Communist Manifesto_). Marx was
wrong (so far as we can tell...perhaps the collapse of communism was
just a setback on the inevitable march towards a World Socialist
Order...;), and I think you are too, in so far as you say that a
technologicaly advanced culture must be non-socialist.
> b. If a group of civilians can develop space travel without
> goverment help/knowledge, there might be a place out there to form
> some sort of Galtian society somewhere, thats free of rampant
> socialism...
I agree. I think libertarian nation-projects like Galt's Gulch,
Oceania, etc. are doomed because they continue to be too near existing
nations, which may choose to squash the new enterprise. The
interesting book _Founding Your Own Country_ (from Loompanics) offers
a few solutions to this problem: establishing one's own nuclear
stockpile, or living under the nuclear umbrella of an existing
superpower. I've been playing with a SF writing project wherein a
group of humans uses Kathryn's idea, and thereby comes up with a third
option: leave the scene of conflict.
> I want to be on the first ship to colonize that place.
Being an engineer myself, I'd rather be on the second ship...;)
> The idea of aliens is a source of hope, since I can't believe in
> the idea of there being a god.
I think contact with aliens could be very good, but it also has the
potential to be very bad. The scenarios range from the brutally
military ( we meet the alien equivilant of the Nazi's, or a
fundamentalist jihad), to a crushing begninity (sp?) wherein we are
confronted with such miraculosu technology that our engineers and
scientists give up and our society becomes parasitic instead of
inovative.
> Like I said, you can call me crazy, but I don't care, because I've
> been called that before many times.
And I've been one of the people doing so..;)
--
TJIC (Travis J.I. Corcoran) TJIC@icd.teradyne.com
opinions(TJIC) != opinions(employer(TJIC))
"Buy a rifle, encrypt your data, and wait for the Revolution!"
