[749] in resnet
Re: Problems with Windows 2000 DHCP server Leases.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Wardius, Martin)
Fri Feb 1 13:19:32 2002
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:02:36 -0600
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From: "Wardius, Martin" <wardius@MSOE.EDU>
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
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Ronald,
At MSOE, we decided that we would move away from the NT 4 DHCP/WINS this
year. After researching the alternatives, we decided the best solution was
to move to the Linux platform for DHCP.
IMO, after NT 4 SP 4 Microsoft DHCP became less and less user friendly and
offered fewer and fewer options and became a great deal more "buggy". OTOH,
since we've gone to Linux (Slackware Distribution) we have had ZERO
problems. The only time we've re-booted this box was to upgrade and
recompile the kernal. If you keep Linux DNS, you would also gain the ability
to give every user a FQDN. Our residents have been very happy with this as
now they have absolutely no problems pulling files from the box in their
rooms while working on projects in labs.
The box was originally built (by two of my sophmore techs) on a P-166
w/128mb RAM. We have since acquired a P-III/550mhz w/256mb RAM and migrated
to this box during the last kernal upgrade. We have experienced none of the
problems you describe, though we did when using M$ DHCP. Doing this
shouldn't intefere with migration to M$ 2K Domain model (if that's the firm
decision of the powers that be). Our environment is a mixture of M$ Domains,
Novell, Unix and Linux, with Win 2K being the primary user OS.
You could hardly consider me a Microsoft basher, but I do believe in using
the best tool for the job at hand. YMMV
Marty Wardius
ResNet Manager
Milwaukee School of Engineering
wardius@msoe.edu <mailto:wardius@msoe.edu>
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald R. Gilmore [mailto:gilmorrr@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:47 PM
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Problems with Windows 2000 DHCP server Leases.
At Oneonta State we have started the migration into the Microsoft 2000
domain world. Our first phase of this project was to upgrade our existing
NT4 - DHCP/WINS and LINUX based DNS to a Windows 2000 network structure. We
have hit a few snags with the 2000 DHCP server, and that's why I'm here.
Here's what we had and what we moved to. In our old Network environment we
had 16 different subnets on 16 VLANs, using a Linux server(s) for our DNS
and an NT 4 server our DHCP/WINS using VLAN Tagging. We had a few DUP IP's
back then but most we could track down to a malfunctioning DHCP stack or
where a static IP Address was implemented. But for the most part no problems
with this design. Everything else worked like it should.
After moving the NT4 Lease database to 2000's world we have had many IP
Conflicts. When they first started happening it seemed like it was somewhat
random as to what was going on, but after a few weeks of tracking down the
problem we have found what seems to be causing the problem. The NT 4, 2000,
and XP machines appear not to have the problem but Mac's (by product of the
win9x machines we believe), 95, 98 and 98se in particular are seeing the
problem.
When a 9x machine gets a DHCP lease from the server for the first time both
leases are in sync with the 2000 DHCP server. We did a manual release/renew
on the 9x machine and the time stayed in sync with the DHCP server. Then we
rebooted the 9x machine and noticed that the time became out of sync with
the server. So we put a sniffer on the 9x machine and saw the machine issue
a DHCP renew at boot that was a broadcast style, but with no response from
the server. The NT/XP based machines do a directed broadcast for their
renewal of the lease upon boot. We then looked at the server and the leases
were even more out of sync. All the while on the client 9 x machines it kept
reporting that it had renewed its lease and put the time at which it had
attempted to renew in the leases field. The next step was to reboot the
machine without a network cable attached. The same thing happened a lease
was renewed and no server was contacted. I tried this with a 2000 and XP
machine and upon boot the IP protocol doesn't come up until you have a Link
State on the network card. After plugging it in to the wall the adaptor got
a lease and it was in sync with the DHCP server. What this causes is that
the more times the 9x machine reboots, or even worse are overnight powered
off, machines become vastly out of sync with the DHCP server. After 7 days,
which is our lease time here, the DHCP server then removes the lease for the
9x machine and then assigns it to another client. The 9x machine still
thinks it has more time on its lease and thus keeps the IP.
We have tired the DHCP release on shutdown hack but it has a very nasty side
affect with the 2000 DHCP server. When the user powers the machine on yes
their IP is released but the machine still doesn't do a proper renew upon
boot, and the user is forced to do a manual renew, a real problem here! Does
anyone know of a fix for the 9x client, or is an upgrade to the OS our only
solution?
We also have tried to use conflict detection on the DHCP server but this
doesn't work when the client is powered off over night.
Just to clarify my mind this is how DHCP on a 9x client SHOULD
work. New computer on network and no previous leases in its DHCP stack. Upon
boot it gets a new address from the DHCP server and its lease time. (Given
in an offset from current time on each machine.) The 9x machine is rebooted
and it SHOULD keep the same lease time in its DHCP information until it
reaches the ½ way point and then attempts a lease renewal. At this time it
does a directed DHCP renew to the server listed in its DHCP information and
thus extends its lease. Also when a 9x machine is booted without a network
cable the DHCP stack should come up with no lease or a Microsoft Automatic
Private IP Addresses i.e. a 169.x.x.x number.
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<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Ronald,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>At
MSOE, we decided that we would move away from the NT 4 DHCP/WINS this year.
After researching the alternatives, we decided the best solution was to
move to the Linux platform for DHCP.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>IMO,
after NT 4 SP 4 Microsoft DHCP became less and less user friendly and
offered fewer and fewer options and became a great deal more "buggy". OTOH,
since we've gone to Linux (Slackware Distribution) we have had ZERO problems.
The only time we've re-booted this box was to upgrade and recompile the kernal.
If you keep Linux DNS, you would also gain the ability to give every user a
FQDN. Our residents have been very happy with this as now they have absolutely
no problems pulling files from the box in their rooms while working on projects
in labs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
box was originally built (by two of my sophmore techs) on a P-166 w/128mb RAM.
We have since acquired a P-III/550mhz w/256mb RAM and migrated to this box
during the last kernal upgrade. We have experienced none of the problems you
describe, though we did when using M$ DHCP. Doing this shouldn't intefere with
migration to M$ 2K Domain model (if that's the firm decision of the powers that
be). Our environment is a mixture of M$ Domains, Novell, Unix and Linux, with
Win 2K being the primary user OS.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You
could hardly consider me a Microsoft basher, but I do believe in using the best
tool for the job at hand. YMMV</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Marty
Wardius</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>ResNet
Manager</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Milwaukee School of Engineering</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="mailto:wardius@msoe.edu">wardius@msoe.edu</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=172382717-01022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ronald R. Gilmore
[mailto:gilmorrr@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January
31, 2002 1:47 PM<BR><B>To:</B> RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Problems with Windows 2000 DHCP server Leases.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">At Oneonta State we have started
the migration into the Microsoft 2000 domain world. Our first phase of this
project was to upgrade our existing NT4 - DHCP/WINS and LINUX based DNS to a
Windows 2000 network structure. We have hit a few snags with the 2000 DHCP
server, and that’s why I’m here. Here’s what we had and what we moved to. In
our old Network environment we had 16 different subnets on 16 VLANs, using a
Linux server(s) for our DNS and an NT 4 server our DHCP/WINS using VLAN
Tagging. We had a few DUP IP’s back then but most we could track down to a
malfunctioning DHCP stack or where a static IP Address was implemented. But
for the most part no problems with this design. Everything else worked like it
should. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">After moving the NT4 Lease
database to 2000’s world we have had many IP Conflicts. When they first
started happening it seemed like it was somewhat random as to what was going
on, but after a few weeks of tracking down the problem we have found what
seems to be causing the problem. The NT 4, 2000, and XP machines appear not to
have the problem but Mac’s (by product of the win9x machines we believe), 95,
98 and 98se in particular are seeing the problem. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When a 9x machine gets a DHCP
lease from the server for the first time both leases are in sync with the 2000
DHCP server. We did a manual release/renew on the 9x machine and the time
stayed in sync with the DHCP server. Then we rebooted the 9x machine and
noticed that the time became out of sync with the server. So we put a sniffer
on the 9x machine and saw the machine issue a DHCP renew at boot that was a
broadcast style, but with no response from the server. The NT/XP based
machines do a directed broadcast for their renewal of the lease upon boot. We
then looked at the server and the leases were even more out of sync. All the
while on the client 9 x machines it kept reporting that it had renewed its
lease and put the time at which it had attempted to renew in the leases field.
The next step was to reboot the machine without a network cable attached. The
same thing happened a lease was renewed and no server was contacted. I tried
this with a 2000 and XP machine and upon boot the IP protocol doesn’t come up
until you have a </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Link</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">State</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> on the
network card. After plugging it in to the wall the adaptor got a lease and it
was in sync with the DHCP server. What this causes is that the more times the
9x machine reboots, or even worse are overnight powered off, machines become
vastly out of sync with the DHCP server. After 7 days, which is our
lease time here, the DHCP server then removes the lease for the 9x machine and
then assigns it to another client. The 9x machine still thinks it has more
time on its lease and thus keeps the IP. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We have tired the DHCP release on
shutdown hack but it has a very nasty side affect with the 2000 DHCP server.
When the user powers the machine on yes their IP is released but the machine
still doesn’t do a proper renew upon boot, and the user is forced to do a
manual renew, a real problem here! Does anyone know of a fix for the 9x
client, or is an upgrade to the OS our only solution?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We also have tried to use conflict
detection on the DHCP server but this doesn’t work when the client is powered
off over night.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Just to clarify my mind this is how DHCP on a 9x client <U>SHOULD</U> work.
New computer on network and no previous leases in its DHCP stack. Upon boot it
gets a new address from the DHCP server and its lease time. (Given in an
offset from current time on each machine.) The 9x machine is rebooted and it
SHOULD keep the same lease time in its DHCP information until it reaches the ½
way point and then attempts a lease renewal. At this time it does a directed
DHCP renew to the server listed in its DHCP information and thus extends its
lease. Also when a 9x machine is booted without a network cable the DHCP stack
should come up with no lease or a Microsoft Automatic Private IP Addresses
i.e. a 169.x.x.x number.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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