[26707] in resnet
Re: Students\parents who object to wireless?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Hendricks, Jeremy)
Fri Sep 2 15:12:59 2011
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Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 13:10:08 -0600
Reply-To: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu>
From: "Hendricks, Jeremy" <jeremy@MONTANA.EDU>
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
In-Reply-To: <6C64EB3D-1821-46AA-A907-840D121DE74A@nd.edu>
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Years ago when it was about electromagnet radiation studies and how far the=
kids should sit from the TV's (Tube based of course) they came back with t=
he results and distance. I don't even remember the distance anymore but wh=
at stuck out in the findings was the #1 electromagnetic device to be harmfu=
l was a digital alarm clock. It's a couple feet from your head, for 6-8 ho=
urs every night while you sleep.
Police with radar guns in their lap ended up with a high percentage of canc=
er. Some are saying the belt worn cell phones will do the same.
Cell phone, Satellite TV signals, Radio Stations, GPS systems, HAM Operator=
s, and the whole spectrum of FCC frequencies and microwave signals are ever=
ywhere. That doesn't even start counting electromagnetic interference from=
motors and household appliances. Take a program like kismet/kismac and dr=
ive around. Not for war driving as some like to do, but there isn't much a=
nywhere that doesn't have wireless bleed and signal in multiple bands and c=
hannels.
We've been fortunate enough not to have complaints, but all of our AP's are=
hallway mounted and have the lights turned off. Drunk students and blinki=
ng lights have potential for issues. We've not locked them and have yet to=
lose an AP. I turned the lights off to make them less appealing, from my =
own youthful experience of stumble stumble oooOOOooo shiny break.
Well over a decade ago, we had someone setup a desk with their monitor near=
the wall where the building 480v lines where in a chase. The CRT of cours=
e was all sorts of distorted. After electricians, designers, IT staff, and=
anyone with an opinion (a lot of people) looked at it some expensive groun=
ded shielding was installed to the wall to stop the field interference. I =
think it was a week or two after all the work and planning, let alone the c=
ost, that the user decided she didn't like her desk setup like that and mov=
ed everything to be more comfortable. This included placing the computer w=
ell away from the interference where it wouldn't have been a problem.
How to get that across to someone worried about AP proximity? I hope I nev=
er have to try or find out. We have wellness floors, and other floors dedi=
cated to student interest. Can you build a Tech Tard floor and move them t=
here without TV, Network, and a ban on electronics? Turn the breakers off =
too except for the lights and don't let the elevator go there. Possibly ad=
d a small library so they can get encyclopedia's and phone books, something=
most haven't touched in many years. Cynical? Maybe, but this ranks up the=
re with wanting to put my grandson in a hamster ball type bubble "just in c=
ase!"
Jeremy Hendricks
Montana State University
AUXSVS/ResNet
406-994-1929
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Bur=
chett
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:45 AM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: Students\parents who object to wireless?
I believe that they are worried about the close proximity to access points =
contributing to sleep disruption, among other possible health risks.
I don't know of a quality study that demonstrates that access points affect=
our sleep negatively, but I have seen several online articles making this =
claim. It's simply not an issue that I've felt the need to investigate, so=
I'm not claiming to know one way or the other the validity of this parenta=
l concern.
Brian Burchett
Learning Spaces
OIT - Notre Dame
On Sep 2, 2011, at 7:46 AM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:
I wonder if they allow their daughter to use a cell phone? I also wonder if=
they ever had a cordless phone in their home, a microwave oven, or a baby =
monitor in their daughter's room when she was growing up?
We had a situation once where we had roughed out an installation for an AP =
and it happened to be above a woman's desk. She got very upset. In the end=
we decided to just quietly abandon that installation and install the AP so=
mewhere else. It is in some ways a lose/lose. If you move it then the perso=
n can think "see, why did they move it if there is no risk then?" If you do=
n't move it then there is just an ongoing battle and potential disruption a=
nd bad feelings.
There have been movements in some school districts to prohibit WiFi due to =
perceived health risks. This wiki does a pretty good job summarizing a lot =
of the questions and studies with some good references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_electronic_devices_and_health
Pete M.
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Web=
ster
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 12:32 AM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: Students\parents who object to wireless?
What is it that these parents are afraid of? The RF signal is the only thin=
g I can come up with, and that's going to penetrate the room whether it's m=
ounted in the room or outside in the hallway.
Based on what you said about cost recovery, I assume these APs are treated =
as part of the building infrastructure, much like the in-wall wiring or plu=
mbing. If that's the case, my off-the-cuff thought is that it's part of the=
building and if the parents or students don't like it, they can either a) =
suck it up, or b) ask to be moved.
But it's 12:30am and my mind is tired. Perhaps I'm missing a really obvious=
reason one wouldn't want to share a room with an AP (just think of all the=
awesome SUPER-FAST internets you could get being that close!)
-Chris
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Caroline Couture <caroline@pobox.upenn.edu<=
mailto:caroline@pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
Hi Folks!
It doesn't happen often but again this year we have a student\parents who h=
ave objected to having an access point in the room. Our access points are w=
all-mounted with no cover in the room.
Do you fine in such cases? How much?
What have you done in this situation?
We do have language in the student handbook about not vandalizing the ap an=
d have a cost, @$50.00, associated with tampering.
We have, jokingly, thought about about just covering the box and telling th=
e family that they are "protected." But that seems both disingenuous and al=
so seems to encourage not proven ideas.
We could perhaps move the student but we would have to talk to our housing =
folks about moving him. The other incident we had the student refused to be=
moved.
We could have the ap moved but that might cause coverage problems in the ar=
ea. We also have a cost recovery model in place so someone would have to fo=
ot the bill for moving the ap and any changes to wiring.
It seems to me that this may be a growing problem with people conflating wi=
reless and the possible issues with cell phones and also more and more peop=
le having a deep distrust of technology and those who say such tech is safe=
.
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Caroline
Use what seems like poison as medicine. Use your personal suffering as the =
path to compassion for all beings. -- Pema Chodron
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--
Chris Webster
Senior Technician
OIT Walk-in Center
North Carolina State University
Ph: 919.513.2676
Fax: 919.513.2945
Email: chris.webster@ncsu.edu<mailto:chris.webster@ncsu.edu>
Web: http://go.ncsu.edu/wic/
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Years ago=
when it was about electromagnet radiation studies and how far the kids sho=
uld sit from the TV’s (Tube based of course) they came back with the =
results and distance. I don’t even remember the distance anymor=
e but what stuck out in the findings was the #1 electromagnetic device to b=
e harmful was a digital alarm clock. It’s a couple feet from yo=
ur head, for 6-8 hours every night while you sleep. <o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'>Police with radar guns in their lap ended up with a high perc=
entage of cancer. Some are saying the belt worn cell phones will do t=
he same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell phone, Satellite TV signals, Ra=
dio Stations, GPS systems, HAM Operators, and the whole spectrum of FCC fre=
quencies and microwave signals are everywhere. That doesn’t eve=
n start counting electromagnetic interference from motors and household app=
liances. Take a program like kismet/kismac and drive around. No=
t for war driving as some like to do, but there isn’t much anywhere t=
hat doesn’t have wireless bleed and signal in multiple bands and chan=
nels.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We’ve been fortunate enough not t=
o have complaints, but all of our AP’s are hallway mounted and have t=
he lights turned off. Drunk students and blinking lights have potenti=
al for issues. We’ve not locked them and have yet to lose an AP=
. I turned the lights off to make them less appealing, from my own yo=
uthful experience of stumble stumble oooOOOooo shiny break. <o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'>Well over a decade ago, we had someone setup a desk w=
ith their monitor near the wall where the building 480v lines where in a ch=
ase. The CRT of course was all sorts of distorted. After electr=
icians, designers, IT staff, and anyone with an opinion (a lot of people) l=
ooked at it some expensive grounded shielding was installed to the wall to =
stop the field interference. I think it was a week or two after all t=
he work and planning, let alone the cost, that the user decided she didn=
217;t like her desk setup like that and moved everything to be more comfort=
able. This included placing the computer well away from the interfere=
nce where it wouldn’t have been a problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'>How to get that across to someone worried about AP proximity? I h=
ope I never have to try or find out. We have wellness floors, and oth=
er floors dedicated to student interest. Can you build a Tech Tard fl=
oor and move them there without TV, Network, and a ban on electronics? =
; Turn the breakers off too except for the lights and don’t let the e=
levator go there. Possibly add a small library so they can get encycl=
opedia’s and phone books, something most haven’t touched in man=
y years. Cynical? Maybe, but this ranks up there with wanting to put =
my grandson in a hamster ball type bubble “just in case!”<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>Jeremy Hendricks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mon=
tana State University<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>AUXS=
VS/ResNet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>406-994-1929<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-t=
op:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Bu=
rchett<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 02, 2011 6:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> RES=
NET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Students\parents who object to=
wireless?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> =
;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I believe that they are worried about =
the close proximity to access points contributing to sleep disruption, amon=
g other possible health risks.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I don't know of a qu=
ality study that demonstrates that access points affect our sleep negativel=
y, but I have seen several online articles making this claim. It's si=
mply not an issue that I've felt the need to investigate, so I'm not claimi=
ng to know one way or the other the validity of this parental concern.<o:p>=
</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal>Brian Burchett<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal>Learning Spaces<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>OIT - N=
otre Dame<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal>On Sep 2, 2011, at 7:46 AM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'>I wonder if they allow their daughter to use a cell phone? I als=
o wonder if they ever had a cordless phone in their home, a microwave oven,=
or a baby monitor in their daughter’s room when she was growing up?<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We had a situation once=
where we had roughed out an installation for an AP and it happened t=
o be above a woman’s desk. She got very upset. In the end we decided =
to just quietly abandon that installation and install the AP somewhere else=
. It is in some ways a lose/lose. If you move it then the person can think =
“see, why did they move it if there is no risk then?” If you do=
n’t move it then there is just an ongoing battle and potential disrup=
tion and bad feelings.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
There have been movements in some school districts to prohibit WiFi due to =
perceived health risks. This wiki does a pretty good job summarizing a lot =
of the questions and studies with some good references:</span><o:p></o:p></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_=
electronic_devices_and_health">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_electr=
onic_devices_and_health</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Pete M.<o:p></o:p></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style=3D'borde=
r:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-widt=
h:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND=
.EDU]<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span></b>Chris Webster<br><b>Sent:</b=
><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Friday, September 02, 201=
1 12:32 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><a=
href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a><br><=
b>Subject:</b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span>Re: Students=
\parents who object to wireless?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
argin-bottom:12.0pt'>What is it that these parents are afraid of? The RF si=
gnal is the only thing I can come up with, and that's going to penetrate th=
e room whether it's mounted in the room or outside in the hallway.<span cla=
ss=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br><br>Based on what you said abou=
t cost recovery, I assume these APs are treated as part of the building inf=
rastructure, much like the in-wall wiring or plumbing. If that's the case, =
my off-the-cuff thought is that it's part of the building and if the parent=
s or students don't like it, they can either a) suck it up, or b) ask to be=
moved.<br><br>But it's 12:30am and my mind is tired. Perhaps I'm missing a=
really obvious reason one wouldn't want to share a room with an AP (just t=
hink of all the awesome SUPER-FAST internets you could get being that close=
!)<br><br>-Chris<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>O=
n Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Caroline Couture <<a href=3D"mailto:carol=
ine@pobox.upenn.edu">caroline@pobox.upenn.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Folks!<br><br>It doesn't happen often bu=
t again this year we have a student\parents who have objected to having an =
access point in the room. Our access points are wall-mounted with no cover =
in the room.<br><br>Do you fine in such cases? How much?<br><br>What have y=
ou done in this situation?<br><br>We do have language in the student handbo=
ok about not vandalizing the ap and have a cost, @$50.00, associated with t=
ampering.<br><br>We have, jokingly, thought about about just covering the b=
ox and telling the family that they are "protected." But that see=
ms both disingenuous and also seems to encourage not proven ideas.<br><br>W=
e could perhaps move the student but we would have to talk to our housing f=
olks about moving him. The other incident we had the student refused to be =
moved.<br><br>We could have the ap moved but that might cause coverage prob=
lems in the area. We also have a cost recovery model in place so someone wo=
uld have to foot the bill for moving the ap and any changes to wiring.<br><=
br>It seems to me that this may be a growing problem with people conflating=
wireless and the possible issues with cell phones and also more and more p=
eople having a deep distrust of technology and those who say such tech is s=
afe.<br><br>Thanks for any insight you can provide.<br><br>Caroline<br><br>=
Use what seems like poison as medicine. Use your personal suffering as the =
path to compassion for all beings. -- Pema Chodron<br><br>_________________=
__________________________________<br>You are subscribed to the ResNet-L ma=
iling list.<br><br>To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the archives,<br>go =
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______<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br clear=3D=
all><br>--<span class=3Dapple-converted-space> </span><br>Chris Webste=
r<br>Senior Technician<br>OIT Walk-in Center<br>North Carolina State Univer=
sity<br><br>Ph: 919.513.2676<br>Fax: 919.513.2945<br>Email:<span class=3Dap=
ple-converted-space> </span><a href=3D"mailto:chris.webster@ncsu.edu" =
target=3D"_blank">chris.webster@ncsu.edu</a><br>Web:<span class=3Dapple-con=
verted-space> </span><a href=3D"http://go.ncsu.edu/wic/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://go.ncsu.edu/wic/</a><br><br>___________________________________=
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