[25949] in resnet
Re: Centralized Classroom/Lab Management Software
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Adeel Siddiqui)
Tue Feb 15 23:35:58 2011
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:32:45 -0600
Reply-To: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu>
From: Adeel Siddiqui <asiddiqui@usao.edu>
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
In-Reply-To: <3E94D84A5D5C9B428E4FB522831B0B201EBC7DAE6C@EXCHMAIL-VS.mercyhurst.local>
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Hannah,
We use Deep Freeze and Centurion Cornerstone to manage all the lab computers
on our campus. Both are reboot-&-restore software applications that have
built-in WOL management capabilities. The WOL capability of DF and CC is
really just a side functionality for us, since we mainly use them for their
reboot-&-restore feature (and also automation of general maintenance tasks).
In my opinion, Deep Freeze is the more complete software package, and its
support for Snow Leopard on our Mac computers was the icing on the cake for
us since Deep Freeze also integrates wonderfully with ARD (Apple Remote
Desktop) which we use for performing remote/automated maintenance tasks on
all our Macs.
A point of note is that Macs don't have WOL functionality. If I remember
correctly, Apple's old XServe servers have/had LOM (Lights-Out-Management)
which could be used to remotely turn on the XServe (from a completely shut
down state), but none of the workstation Macs have this feature built into
the NIC. You can 'wake' a Mac computer from 'sleep' (assuming it's on the
same subnet as the workstation sending the wake command) but not when its
completely shutdown. There are tricks to get around this by configuring the
Mac workstation's settings to have it turn on automatically after a power
failure; then you can plug the Macs into remotely-managed special
surge-protectors or UPS's that have an instant power kill option which
simulates a 'power-failure'. Personally I've never been a big fan of this
approach (just the cost alone of implementation is enough reason), and since
only a small percentage of our lab computers have Macs, we just manually
perform maintenance that can't be automated through ARD. The WOL capability
is something we have only used on our Windows machines.
Having said all that..
An issue we have with our Extreme Networks switches is that they natively
don't allow for directed broadcasts (via UDP) which are required for
Wake-On-LAN to properly work. So I would highly recommend that you check
beforehand if your network architecture supports that. The nitty-gritty of
the issue for us is that the ARP traffic did not properly sync (IP-to-MAC)
with our DHCP schema across multiple subnets. I tried experimenting with
increasing the TTL for ARP caching on the switches, but that only caused
further issues with network bottlenecks and lags. Because of this, WOL
worked intermittently (at best, but mostly not at all) across our campus,
which gave false positives when we absolutely need that functionality. Oy
vey..
Through trial and error, I was able to create an ad-hoc UDP forwarding
profile on the appropriate switches (and our core router) to try and push
through the WOL traffic correctly (and consistently) through ARP
propagation. But this was a band-aid fix at best (WOL still doesn't work
reliably). The tech guys at Extreme Networks tell me that they are working
on a proper solution that will hopefully be included sometime soon in a
future firmware update.
The bottom line is that if the workstation sending the UDP packet for WOL is
on the same VLAN or Layer 2 network, then this isn't a problem. If the
workstation sending the UDP packets is on a different VLAN or Layer 2/3
network then one needs to rely on the router/switch to send a broadcast to
all devices in the target VLAN or Layer 2/3 network. So if you have multiple
subnets on your network, sending WOL ('magic') packets across becomes an
issue if your network hardware does not support that, or hasn't been
properly configured to do so.
Oh, and of course, you also have to have WOL enabled on the workstation NICs
;-)
regards,
Adeel Siddiqui
Network Administrator
Information, Research and Network Services
University <http://www.usao.edu/> of Science and Arts of Oklahoma
Chickasha, OK 73018
(405) 574-1319
asiddiqui@usao.edu
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler"
-- Albert Einstein
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Cox,
Hannah
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 7:50 AM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Centralized Classroom/Lab Management Software
We are trying to centralize management of classroom and lab computers at our
Help Desk so that we can power on and update computers remotely. Does anyone
have suggestions for software that will allow us to centrally manage our
classroom and lab computers? We are especially interested in software that
will allow us to startup the computers remotely because all of our classroom
and lab computers are shutdown at the end of the day.
Thanks,
Hannah Cox
Help Desk Manager
Mercyhurst College
814-824-3301
<mailto:hcox@mercyhurst.edu> hcox@mercyhurst.edu
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hannah,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>We use <b>Deep =
Freeze</b> and <b>Centurion Cornerstone</b> to manage all the lab =
computers on our campus. Both are <b><i>reboot-&-restore</i></b> =
software applications that have built-in <b>WOL</b> management =
capabilities. The WOL capability of DF and CC is really just a side =
functionality for us, since we mainly use them for their =
reboot-&-restore feature (and also automation of general maintenance =
tasks). In my opinion, Deep Freeze is the more complete software =
package, and its support for Snow Leopard on our Mac computers was the =
icing on the cake for us since Deep Freeze also integrates wonderfully =
with <b>ARD</b> (Apple Remote Desktop) which we use for performing =
remote/automated maintenance tasks on all our Macs. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>A point of note is that =
<u>Macs don’t have WOL functionality</u>. If I remember correctly, =
Apple’s old XServe servers have/had LOM =
(<i>Lights-Out-Management</i>) which could be used to remotely turn on =
the XServe (from a completely shut down state), but <b><i>none</i></b> =
of the <b><i>workstation</i></b> Macs have this feature built into the =
NIC. You can ‘wake’ a Mac computer from ‘sleep’ =
(assuming it’s on the <b><i>same</i></b> subnet as the workstation =
sending the wake command) but <b><i>not</i></b> when its completely =
shutdown. There are tricks to get around this by configuring the Mac =
workstation’s settings to have it turn on automatically after a =
<i>power failure</i>; then you can plug the Macs into =
<i>remotely-managed</i> special surge-protectors or UPS’s that =
have an <i>instant</i> power kill option which simulates a =
‘power-failure’. Personally I’ve never been a big fan =
of this approach (just the cost alone of implementation is enough =
reason), and since only a small percentage of our lab computers have =
Macs, we just <i>manually</i> perform maintenance that can’t be =
automated through ARD. The WOL capability is something we have only used =
on our <b>Windows</b> machines. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Having said all =
that….<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>An issue we have with =
our Extreme Networks switches is that they natively =
<b><i>don’t</i></b> allow for <u>directed broadcasts</u> (via UDP) =
which are <u>required for Wake-On-LAN to properly work</u>. So I would =
highly recommend that you check beforehand if your network architecture =
supports that. The nitty-gritty of the issue for us is that the ARP =
traffic did not properly sync (IP-to-MAC) with our DHCP schema across =
multiple subnets. I tried experimenting with increasing the TTL for ARP =
caching on the switches, but that only caused further issues with =
network bottlenecks and lags. Because of this, WOL worked =
<i>intermittently</i> (at best, but mostly not at all) across our =
campus, which gave false positives when we absolutely need that =
functionality. <i>Oy vey….<o:p></o:p></i></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Through trial and error, =
I was able to create an <i>ad-hoc</i> </span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>UDP forwarding profile on the appropriate =
switches (and our core router) to try and push through the WOL traffic =
correctly (and consistently) through ARP propagation. <b>But</b> this =
was a <i>band-aid</i> fix at best (<i>WOL still <b>doesn’t</b> =
work reliably</i>). The tech guys at Extreme Networks tell me that they =
are working on a proper solution that will hopefully be included =
sometime soon in a future firmware update.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><u><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The bottom =
line</span></u><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> is that if the workstation =
sending the UDP packet for WOL is on the same VLAN or Layer 2 network, =
then this isn’t a problem. If the workstation sending the UDP =
packets is on a different VLAN or Layer 2/3 network then one needs to =
rely on the router/switch to send a broadcast to all devices in the =
target VLAN or Layer 2/3 network. So if you have multiple subnets on =
your network, sending WOL (‘magic’) packets across becomes =
an issue if your network hardware does not support that, or hasn’t =
been properly configured to do so. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Oh, and of course, you =
also have to have WOL enabled on the workstation NICs =
;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br></span><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>regards,</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br></span><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Adeel =
Siddiqui</span></i><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><br></span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br><i>Network Administrator<br></i>Information, Research and Network =
Services<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.usao.edu/">University of Science and Arts of =
Oklahoma</a></span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>Chickasha, OK 73018</span><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'> =
<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>(405) 574-1319<br></span><u><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
a =
href=3D"mailto:asiddiqui@usao.edu">asiddiqui@usao.edu</a></span></u><span=
=
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>"Everything =
should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler"<br>-- Albert =
Einstein<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Cox, =
Hannah<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 14, 2011 7:50 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<br><b>Subject:</b> Centralized Classroom/Lab =
Management Software<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>We are =
trying to centralize management of classroom and lab computers at our =
Help Desk so that we can power on and update computers remotely. Does =
anyone have suggestions for software that will allow us to centrally =
manage our classroom and lab computers? We are especially interested in =
software that will allow us to startup the computers remotely because =
all of our classroom and lab computers are shutdown at the end of the =
day.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Hannah =
Cox<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Help Desk Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Mercyhurst =
College<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>814-824-3301<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"mailto:hcox@mercyhurst.edu"><span =
style=3D'color:black'>hcox@mercyhurst.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>___________________________________________________ You =
are subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p>To =
subscribe, unsubscribe or search the archives, go to =
http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html =
___________________________________________________ =
<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>=
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