[37990] in Resnet-Forum
Re: New Stratagies to Meet Higher Bandwidther Requirements in the HD Video World
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Glenn Sutherland)
Mon Feb 18 07:46:07 2013
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Message-ID: <EB210B37BD40B841BCC40156B1D70B47239EF6CE@SMU-MBX1.SMUNET.SMU.CA>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:44:59 +0000
Reply-To: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
From: Glenn Sutherland <Glenn.Sutherland@SMU.CA>
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
In-Reply-To: <511AFA7A.7070408@utc.edu>
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Jeff, does the NetEqualizer "equal rights" automatically divide the availab=
le bandwidth up dynamically between the active users? It sounds like the Dy=
namic sub partitioning in Packetshaper, which we are using. I think we hav=
e reached that point where even when divided equally there is just not enou=
gh to go around.
Where does the Procera sit in relation to the NetEqualizer, is it on the in=
side interface?
Glenn
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeff Kell
Sent: February-12-13 10:29 PM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: New Stratagies to Meet Higher Bandwidther Requirements in the =
HD Video World
On 2/12/2013 8:41 AM, Glenn Sutherland wrote:
Our campus has a 200M commercial internet connection which is where most in=
ternet traffic passes, (except Facebook, Netflix, Google, and a couple othe=
rs), and this 200M link is managed by our PacketShaper. In our PacketShap=
er we assign 150M (of the 200) to student traffic, and allow it to burst to=
175M, needless to say it is always running at 175M.
We formerly had PacketShaper, and did similar allocations for our resnet. =
The downside was that it was a hard ceiling, and if any remaining bandwidth=
wasn't being utilized otherwise, you couldn't "borrow". Procera allows th=
is, and other more flexible shaping rules.
How are you dealing with the increased demand? Are you restricting more wha=
t users are doing? (Something that would not fly well here). Increasing ava=
ilable bandwidth?
If your "important" or "priority" or "preferred" or whatever traffic demand=
s exceeds your available pipe, shaping falls apart.
You can go the "equal rights" direction like a NetEqualizer, but again, if =
the demand exceeds your available pipe and your user's patience, even equal=
access falls apart. Everybody is equally miserable :)
Beyond a certain point (and I've been there!) there is no acceptable soluti=
on, and you have to wait until the noise level reaches the level of the app=
ropriate management and you hopefully are granted some additional funding f=
or bandwidth.
The converse is also true, if you have adequate budget to provide enough ba=
ndwidth to keep your peak utilization below 80-90%, you have no real need t=
o shape or equalize or prioritize or anything else.
We use our Procera primarily to prioritize certain traffic (business cases,=
gaming, VoIP, Skype, etc) that is relatively low volume in the overall sch=
eme but terribly sensitive to any latency. We also prioritize campus over =
resnet, and all over guest access. We also use it to penalize the corner c=
ases... we have a daily transfer volume "quota" that starts to squeeze the =
bandwidth allowed down if exceeded. We also get very good network visibili=
ty, statistics, and traffic tracking (preferred over netflow, more details =
available).
Bandwidth demand continues to increase... we've gone over two, almost three=
orders of magnitude increase over the last two decades, almost doubling ev=
ery year with no end in sight.
There is no "golden box" that makes everyone's wishes fit into a woefully i=
nadequate pipe :)
Jeff
___________________________________________________ You are subscribed to t=
he ResNet-L mailing list.
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jeff, does the NetEqua=
lizer “equal rights” automatically divide the available bandwid=
th up dynamically between the active users? It sounds like the Dynamic sub =
partitioning in Packetshaper, which we are using.
I think we have reached that point where even when divided equally t=
here is just not enough to go around.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Where does the Procera=
sit in relation to the NetEqualizer, is it on the inside interface?</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",&qu=
ot;serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Glenn<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></spa=
n></p>
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nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windo=
wtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">
Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Ke=
ll<br>
<b>Sent:</b> February-12-13 10:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: New Stratagies to Meet Higher Bandwidther Requirements =
in the HD Video World<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 2/12/2013 8:41 AM, Glenn Sutherland wrote:<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman","serif";color:#3333FF;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-CA">Our campus has a 200M commercial internet connection which is where mo=
st internet traffic passes, (except Facebook, Netflix, Google,
and a couple others), and this 200M link is managed by our PacketShaper. &=
nbsp; In our PacketShaper we assign 150M (of the 200) to student traff=
ic, and allow it to burst to 175M, needless to say it is always running at =
175M.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,"serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><br>
We formerly had PacketShaper, and did similar allocations for our resnet.&n=
bsp; The downside was that it was a hard ceiling, and if any remaining band=
width wasn't being utilized otherwise, you couldn't "borrow".&nbs=
p; Procera allows this, and other more flexible shaping
rules.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">How are y=
ou dealing with the increased demand? Are you restricting more what users a=
re doing? (Something that would not fly well here). Increasing
available bandwidth? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ti=
mes New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><br>
If your "important" or "priority" or "preferred&qu=
ot; or whatever traffic demands exceeds your available pipe, shaping falls =
apart.
<br>
<br>
You can go the "equal rights" direction like a NetEqualizer, but =
again, if the demand exceeds your available pipe and your user's patience, =
even equal access falls apart. Everybody is equally miserable :)<br>
<br>
Beyond a certain point (and I've been there!) there is no acceptable soluti=
on, and you have to wait until the noise level reaches the level of the app=
ropriate management and you hopefully are granted some additional funding f=
or bandwidth.<br>
<br>
The converse is also true, if you have adequate budget to provide enough ba=
ndwidth to keep your peak utilization below 80-90%, you have no real need t=
o shape or equalize or prioritize or anything else.<br>
<br>
We use our Procera primarily to prioritize certain traffic (business cases,=
gaming, VoIP, Skype, etc) that is relatively low volume in the overall sch=
eme but terribly sensitive to any latency. We also prioritize campus =
over resnet, and all over guest access.
We also use it to penalize the corner cases... we have a daily transfer vo=
lume "quota" that starts to squeeze the bandwidth allowed down if=
exceeded. We also get very good network visibility, statistics, and =
traffic tracking (preferred over netflow, more
details available).<br>
<br>
Bandwidth demand continues to increase... we've gone over two, almost three=
orders of magnitude increase over the last two decades, almost doubling ev=
ery year with no end in sight.
<br>
<br>
There is no "golden box" that makes everyone's wishes fit into a =
woefully inadequate pipe :)<br>
<br>
Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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