[838] in UA Senate
Re: athena printing committee
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Richard Dahan)
Mon Oct 18 00:22:33 2010
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik8iFQgv1C4x6HQA3-mYqAkaMGbMHij3RnCNXuY@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 00:22:29 -0400
From: Richard Dahan <rdahan@MIT.EDU>
To: Allan Miramonti <allanm@MIT.EDU>
Cc: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@MIT.EDU>, Betsy Riley <rileyb@MIT.EDU>,
Owen C Derby <oderby@MIT.EDU>, Michael E Plasmeier <theplaz@MIT.EDU>,
Daniel D Hawkins <hwkns@MIT.EDU>,
"ua-senate@mit.edu" <ua-senate@MIT.EDU>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey Senate (and anyone else on this e-mail thread),
Printing is an extremely, extremely important issue, but there are several
directions we can go with it. I wholeheartedly agree with Owen and others
that whoever works on it, a bill from Senate with specific goals - such as
objectives and timelines - would be welcome.
As for whether it should remain with CSL or be handed off to a new ad hoc
committee, I honestly don't know which option would be more effective. What
I do know is that should it remain with CSL, it would indeed be given high
priority and not by any means be "shafted." I also know that there are some
advantages to keeping it in CSL that immediately come to mind:
(1) There already is a lot of momentum on this topic in CSL: we worked on it
heavily last semester and have been figuring out a few possibilities on how
to move forward with it this semester. Forming an entirely new committee
would not only throw away that momentum, but also could take a while to
reach its level. If it were up to me, I would not waste valuable time to get
something that we already have.
(2) We already have people on the committee with knowledge and expertise on
the topic; even if a new committee was formed with many members extremely
excited about this issue, it might still take a while to get them up to
date.
(3) Gathering student input is what we do. We sent out a couple of
campus-wide surveys last year, and plan on doing so again this semester, in
addition to smaller surveys and gathering input from one-on-one interactions
(which we've already been doing heavily). Take that into consideration if
that's one of things you want to be done for printing.
As for the impression that CSL has not done much this year, nothing could be
farther from truth. I'd be happy to talk with anyone who's interested about
the cool things CSL has done and is planning to do after tomorrow's Senate
meeting.
I look forward to continuing this discussion tomorrow at/after the Senate
meeting (although, as always, I will only be able to come to the second half
of the meeting because I have class on MOndays until 9pm). See you tomorrow.
- Richard
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Allan Miramonti <allanm@mit.edu> wrote:
> I feel okay with the creation of a separate committee for a couple
> reasons.
>
> This committee won't exist very long. It should just get in there, see
> that the new printing system is put in place with good student approval and
> be done.
>
> I've been given the impression CSL hasn't done too much this year (I could
> be wrong). I'd rather put people in place with some momentum so that the
> new printing system doesn't get setup without proper student input.
>
> I think we should forgo the whole stepping on people's toes thing and just
> make sure the right actions happen.
>
> -Al
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> As a student who's been involved with working with a bunch of folks from
>> IS&T including Oliver Thomas on a lot of issues including printing, I have
>> one thing to say:
>>
>> What's with this "Thomas" business? His name's Oliver. You even called him
>> "Mr. Oliver Thomas" in the UA Update the other week:
>> http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N43/uaupdate.html
>> Unless you can pull off the kind of formal respect that the New York Times
>> can evoke with that sort of phrasing, it reeks of "Miss Frances' third-grade
>> class recently visited IS&T to see how printing works." You guys are
>> grown-ups now.
>>
>> Anyway he's a cool dude and I encourage you guys working with him.
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey Thomas (no relation)
>> geofft@mit.edu
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, Betsy Riley wrote:
>>
>> Okay. When Oliver Thomas came to speak at Senate, he talked about the
>>> Phase I projects that were completed over the summer but also spent a lot
>>> of time discussing potential changes to printing that will be explored
>>> this semester. These changes extended beyond the issues of Athena spaces
>>> and 24/7 study rooms, including multi-function printers, printers
>>> designated for certain jobs, and printing straight from sites like
>>> Stellar. Looking at the reports you sent me, many of these ideas have
>>> already been proposed, but Thomas said that IS&T wants to test them out
>>> and will therefore need lots of student feedback.
>>> Since printing is such an integral part of the MIT undergraduate
>>> education, and since this semester will demand a lot of coordination with
>>> IS&T to ensure a final printing system that is appealing to students, it
>>> seems prudent to form a new committee devoted exclusively to printing.
>>> Furthermore, since Vrajesh suggested that an ad hoc committee on printing
>>> be formed, I figured that no existing committee has the capacity to take
>>> on the issue of printing right now given that we need to resolve all
>>> printing issues by the end of the semester.
>>>
>>> Lastly, Thomas's enthusiasm for student input is something that we want
>>> to cultivate. Having a committee working exclusively with him, therefore,
>>> makes it more likely that we will maintain a positive relationship with
>>> him and establish a trend of exemplary UA work. I'm worried about the
>>> possibility of printing getting shafted if it's just added to CSL's list
>>> of goals, which would be a shame and embarrassing given that Thomas,
>>> unlike most administrators, is actually asking for UA input.
>>>
>>> Betsy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 16, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Owen Derby wrote:
>>>
>>> tl;dr: The UA Committee for Student Life has been working on
>>> printing since last year and will continue to work on it this
>>> year. CSL would welcome any and all input from senate into
>>> how it should proceed.
>>>
>>> Betsy,
>>>
>>> I meant to bring this up at retreat, but I don't think I did.
>>> If you want to set goals and see progress on this issue, you
>>> would be better off tasking CSL with this than creating an ad
>>> hoc committee to do what CSL is already working on.
>>>
>>> Also, it might be a good idea to establish some sort of goals
>>> in this bill. What do you hope to achieve with this committee
>>> (regardless of who is running it)? This bill is not very
>>> clear on this front.
>>>
>>> - Owen
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Michael E Plasmeier
>>> <theplaz@mit.edu> wrote:
>>> Hi Betsy and the UA Senate,
>>>
>>> I am the UA rep on the Institute's Athena and
>>> Printing Committee. I worked extensively on the
>>> printing issue along with Daniel Hawkins and
>>> Richard Dahan in CSL on this issue last year. We
>>> did a lot of work and thinking on this issue. We
>>> conducted a survey and talked for weeks about
>>> what the best options would be. We put together
>>> our suggestions into an 11 page report and
>>> PowerPoint presentation. Because we completed
>>> our work at the end of the year, without time for
>>> Senate approval, and because the Committee was on
>>> the same page with the UA, and decided to
>>> implement our printing suggestions this past
>>> summer anyway, we did not publish our report.
>>> Many of our recommendations are already
>>> complete.
>>>
>>> Outline of printing recommendations:
>>> -buy new printers - Complete
>>> -unify model for Athena and dorm printing support
>>> - Complete
>>> -Pharos printing system - last I heard the
>>> Institute was going to do this
>>> -2,000 page/semester quota to limit the top ~5%
>>> of printers, CopyTech course readers included -
>>> think they are going to do this, CopyTech part
>>> questionable
>>>
>>> The Institute Committee, which Oliver de facto
>>> leads, has not met this year. I've sent the
>>> committee an email asking if there were any open
>>> issues they wished to reconvene on. The
>>> remaining issue that is open under our charter is
>>> a reconfiguration of the Athena spaces. Hawkins,
>>> Richard, and I had proposed closing the disused
>>> clusters 38-370, 37-332, 4-166, 2-225, 2-032 and
>>> replace them with nearby quickstations with
>>> printers. In addition, MIT should move all of
>>> the book out of Barker 5th floor and lock up the
>>> books on Hayden 1st floor and open those spaces
>>> 24/7 with a bump in computers and group study
>>> rooms. Barker, Hayden, and 5th Floor Student
>>> Center would become integrated study
>>> neighborhoods with a mix of computers, individual
>>> study, and group study. The committee has not
>>> shown any momentum in moving forward with
>>> anything. What do you think is a better option?
>>> Status quo or what we proposed?
>>>
>>> In any case I think any work on this issue can be
>>> handled inside of CSL, as it has been. I extend
>>> an invitation to Betsy and whoever else wishes to
>>> join me on the issue to work with me inside of
>>> the existing framework. Also, as for moving
>>> forward with the Institute committee: if the
>>> consensus is that status quo is better, we can
>>> leave sleeping dragons lying, but if people
>>> actual prefer the 24/7 library space, I can push
>>> that issue if need be. I welcome feedback.
>>>
>>> -Michael Plasmeier
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Betsy Riley [mailto:rileyb@MIT.EDU]
>>> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:38 PM
>>> To: ua-senate@mit.edu
>>> Subject: athena printing committee
>>>
>>> Hello -
>>>
>>> As I said I would, I have written a bill to create an ad hoc
>>> committee to examine changes to Athena printing, provide a
>>> mechanism for student input about printing, and ensure that
>>> student ideas are implemented or at least appropriately
>>> considered. Let me know what you think, if you think anything
>>> should be changed, etc.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Betsy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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Hey Senate (and anyone else on this e-mail thread),<div><br></div><div>Prin=
ting is an extremely, extremely important issue, but there are several dire=
ctions we can go with it. I wholeheartedly agree with Owen and others that =
whoever works on it, a bill from Senate with specific goals - such as objec=
tives and timelines - would be welcome.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As for whether it should remain with CSL or be handed o=
ff to a new ad hoc committee, I honestly don't know which option would =
be more effective. What I do know is that should it remain with CSL, it wou=
ld indeed be given high priority and not by any means be "shafted.&quo=
t; I also know that there are some advantages to keeping it in CSL that imm=
ediately come to mind:</div>
<div><br></div><div>(1) There already is a lot of momentum on this topic in=
CSL: we worked on it heavily last semester and have been figuring out a fe=
w possibilities on how to move forward with it this semester. Forming an en=
tirely new committee would not only throw away that momentum, but also coul=
d take a while to reach its level. If it were up to me, I would not waste v=
aluable time to get something that we already have.</div>
<div><br></div><div>(2) We already have people on the committee with knowle=
dge and expertise on the topic; even if a new committee was formed with man=
y members extremely excited about this issue, it might still take a while t=
o get them up to date.</div>
<div><br></div><div>(3) Gathering student input is what we do. We sent out =
a couple of campus-wide surveys last year, and plan on doing so again this =
semester, in addition to smaller surveys and gathering input from one-on-on=
e interactions (which we've already been doing heavily). Take that into=
consideration if that's one of things you want to be done for printing=
.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As for the impression that CSL has not done much this y=
ear, nothing could be farther from truth. I'd be happy to talk with any=
one who's interested about the cool things CSL has done and is planning=
to do after tomorrow's Senate meeting.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I look forward to continuing this discussion tomorrow a=
t/after the Senate meeting (although, as always, I will only be able to com=
e to the second half of the meeting because I have class on MOndays until 9=
pm). See you tomorrow.</div>
<div><br></div><div>- Richard</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Allan Miramonti <span di=
r=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:allanm@mit.edu">allanm@mit.edu</a>></spa=
n> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I feel okay with the creation of a separate=
committee for a couple reasons.=A0 <br><br>This committee won't exist =
very long.=A0 It should just get in there, see that the new printing system=
is put in place with good student approval and be done.<br>
<br>
I've been given the impression CSL hasn't done too much this year (=
I could be wrong).=A0 I'd rather put people in place with some momentum=
so that the new printing system doesn't get setup without proper stude=
nt input.<br>
<br>I think we should forgo the whole stepping on people's toes thing a=
nd just make sure the right actions happen.<br>
<br>-Al<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Geoffrey Thomas <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
href=3D"mailto:geofft@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">geofft@mit.edu</a>></s=
pan> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
As a student who's been involved with working with a bunch of folks fro=
m IS&T including Oliver Thomas on a lot of issues including printing, I=
have one thing to say:<br>
<br>
What's with this "Thomas" business? His name's Oliver. Yo=
u even called him "Mr. Oliver Thomas" in the UA Update the other =
week:<br>
=A0<a href=3D"http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N43/uaupdate.html" target=3D"_blank=
">http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N43/uaupdate.html</a><br>
Unless you can pull off the kind of formal respect that the New York Times =
can evoke with that sort of phrasing, it reeks of "Miss Frances' t=
hird-grade class recently visited IS&T to see how printing works."=
You guys are grown-ups now.<br>
<br>
Anyway he's a cool dude and I encourage you guys working with him.<br><=
font color=3D"#888888">
<br>
-- <br>
Geoffrey Thomas (no relation)<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:geofft@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">geofft@mit.edu</a></fon=
t><div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, Betsy Riley wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
Okay. When Oliver Thomas came to speak at Senate, he talked about the<br>
Phase I projects that were completed over the summer but also spent a lot<b=
r>
of time discussing potential changes to printing that will be explored<br>
this semester. These changes extended beyond the issues of Athena spaces<br=
>
and 24/7 study rooms, including multi-function printers, printers<br>
designated for certain jobs, and printing straight from sites like<br>
Stellar. Looking at the reports you sent me, many of these ideas have<br>
already been proposed, but Thomas said that IS&T wants to test them out=
<br>
and will therefore need lots of student feedback.<br>
Since printing is such an integral part of the MIT undergraduate<br>
education, and since this semester will demand a lot of coordination with<b=
r>
IS&T to ensure a final printing system that is appealing to students, i=
t<br>
seems prudent to form a new committee devoted exclusively to printing.<br>
Furthermore, since Vrajesh suggested that an ad hoc committee on printing<b=
r>
be formed, I figured that no existing committee has the capacity to take<br=
>
on the issue of printing right now given that we need to resolve all<br>
printing issues by the end of the semester.<br>
<br>
Lastly, Thomas's enthusiasm for student input is something that we want=
<br>
to cultivate. Having a committee working exclusively with him, therefore,<b=
r>
makes it more likely that we will maintain a positive relationship with<br>
him and establish a trend of exemplary UA work. I'm worried about the<b=
r>
possibility of printing getting shafted if it's=A0just added to CSL'=
;s list<br>
of goals, which would be a shame and embarrassing given that Thomas,<br>
unlike most administrators, is actually asking for UA input.=A0<br>
<br>
Betsy<br>
<br>
<br>
On Oct 16, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Owen Derby wrote:<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0tl;dr: The UA Committee for Student Life has been working on<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0printing since last year and will continue to work on it this<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0year. CSL would welcome any and all input from senate into<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0how it should proceed.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0Betsy,<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0I meant to bring this up at retreat, but I don't think I di=
d.<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0If you want to set goals and see progress on this issue, you<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0would be better off tasking CSL with this than creating an ad<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0hoc committee to do what CSL is already working on.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0Also, it might be a good idea to establish some sort of goals<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0in this bill. What do you hope to achieve with this committee<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0(regardless of who is running it)? This bill is not very<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0clear on this front.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0- Owen<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Michael E Plasmeier<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0<<a href=3D"mailto:theplaz@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">thepla=
z@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Hi Betsy and the UA Senate,<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I am the UA rep on the Institute's Athena and<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Printing Committee. =A0I worked extensively on the<=
br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0printing issue along with Daniel Hawkins and<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Richard Dahan in CSL on this issue last year. =A0We=
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0did a lot of work and thinking on this issue. =A0We=
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0conducted a survey and talked for weeks about<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0what the best options would be. =A0We put together<=
br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0our suggestions into an 11 page report and<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0PowerPoint presentation. =A0Because we completed<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0our work at the end of the year, without time for<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Senate approval, and because the Committee was on<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0the same page with the UA, and decided to<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0implement our printing suggestions this past<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0summer anyway, we did not publish our report.<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0Many of our recommendations are already<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0complete.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Outline of printing recommendations:<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-buy new printers - Complete<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-unify model for Athena and dorm printing support<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Complete<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-Pharos printing system - last I heard the<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Institute was going to do this<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-2,000 page/semester quota to limit the top ~5%<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0of printers, CopyTech course readers included -<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0think they are going to do this, CopyTech part<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0questionable<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The Institute Committee, which Oliver de facto<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0leads, has not met this year. =A0I've sent the<=
br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0committee an email asking if there were any open<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0issues they wished to reconvene on. =A0The<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0remaining issue that is open under our charter is<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0a reconfiguration of the Athena spaces. =A0Hawkins,=
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Richard, and I had proposed closing the disused<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0clusters 38-370, 37-332, 4-166, 2-225, 2-032 and<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0replace them with nearby quickstations with<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0printers. =A0In addition, MIT should move all of<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0the book out of Barker 5th floor and lock up the<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0books on Hayden 1st floor and open those spaces<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A024/7 with a bump in computers and group study<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0rooms. =A0Barker, Hayden, and 5th Floor Student<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Center would become integrated study<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0neighborhoods with a mix of computers, individual<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0study, and group study. =A0The committee has not<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0shown any momentum in moving forward with<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0anything. =A0What do you think is a better option?<=
br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0Status quo or what we proposed?<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0In any case I think any work on this issue can be<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0handled inside of CSL, as it has been. =A0I extend<=
br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0an invitation to Betsy and whoever else wishes to<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0join me on the issue to work with me inside of<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0the existing framework. =A0Also, as for moving<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0forward with the Institute committee: if the<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0consensus is that status quo is better, we can<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0leave sleeping dragons lying, but if people<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0actual prefer the 24/7 library space, I can push<br=
>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0that issue if need be. =A0I welcome feedback.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-Michael Plasmeier<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Betsy Riley [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rileyb@MIT.EDU" target=3D"_blan=
k">rileyb@MIT.EDU</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:38 PM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:ua-senate@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">ua-senate@mit.ed=
u</a><br>
Subject: athena printing committee<br>
<br>
Hello -<br>
<br>
As I said I would, I have written a bill to create an ad hoc<br>
committee to examine changes to Athena printing, provide a<br>
mechanism for student input about printing, and ensure that<br>
student ideas are implemented or at least appropriately<br>
considered. Let me know what you think, if you think anything<br>
should be changed, etc.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Betsy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><div style=3D"display:inline"></div>
<div style=3D"display:inline"></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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