[827] in UA Senate
RE: BAKER-FORUM: The Radical Plan on Dining Leads to MORE Choice
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Michael E Plasmeier)
Sat Oct 16 20:28:12 2010
Resent-From: ua-senate@MIT.EDU
From: Michael E Plasmeier <theplaz@MIT.EDU>
To: Nils Molina <nilsmolina@gmail.com>
CC: Jessica Chen <jessicachen.dbhs@gmail.com>,
ec-discuss
<ec-discuss@mit.edu>, Andy Wu <andywu@mit.edu>,
Vrajesh Y Modi
<vrajesh@mit.edu>, Samantha G Wyman <swyman@mit.edu>,
ua-exec
<ua-exec@mit.edu>,
"baker-forum@mit.edu" <baker-forum@mit.edu>,
"Tom Gearty"
<tgearty@mit.edu>, cfs <cfs@mit.edu>,
ua-senate <ua-senate@mit.edu>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 20:27:58 -0400
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik39zj7aYHL+=OsKeo3_Cg1ZLdw_d0PU6Hdg2th@mail.gmail.com>
--_000_60826A506BCDE447B39C85C1496EAB74018B110569EXPO7exchange_
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Well I think it all depends on the level of unhappiness. You break it down=
into 3 levels:
-Happiness - I got the dorm and dining I wanted
-Semi-Unhappiness - I have the dorm I want, but not the dining plan
-Very Unhappiness - I am forced to pay for a dining plan I do not want
But how will you be determining the levels of happiness relative to each ot=
her so that you can trade them off? Also with my assertion that everyone's=
dorm preference function is distinct and independent of everyone else's ho=
w will you determine how to maximize happiness. You could attempt to come =
up with an algorithm to at least measure the average relative unhappiness b=
etween the different options. My plan focuses on only one type of unhappin=
ess: not getting your desired dining level. If we were able to agree on th=
e relative weights of happiness, your plan would be able to better maximize=
happiness in some edge cases.
You also simplify the dining plan to 2 levels (dining/no dining) and only a=
ssume 3 houses are in play.
My plan also operates under the assumption that at least one dorm needs to =
offer hot breakfast. It depends what you weight: people not getting less o=
f a dining plan than they wanted or people not paying for something they do=
not want. You prefer that students get less dining rather than more. Als=
o you assume that the administration would not run breakfast even if only 5=
0 people campus wide want it. I have a feeling that they will insist on of=
fering breakfast at least somewhere, even if the demand is ~50 people. The=
y may decide this due to "obligations" or admissions reasons.
You could also run the modifications some have suggested through your scena=
rio. Take for example the plan proposed by David where people get the dini=
ng level they select, no matter where they live (a move that protects reven=
ue) AND students can continue to live in their current dorm at their select=
ed dining plan. "David Balanced Plan". Under the scenario you proposed, a =
random dorm (since preference was the same in each), say Dorm A would offer=
the dining plan. Again 400 people in Dorms B and C would be happy at no d=
ining plan. The 100 students who wanted a dining plan in A would be happy =
to have one in A. The 200 students from Dorm B and C who wanted a dining p=
lan would be signed up for one. These people would be a Semi-Happy (a new =
happiness level) in that they get the dining they want, but may need to wal=
k next door. (They could likely not move into A, since no one would want t=
o move out of A) The 200 students who did not want a dining plan in A woul=
d just ignore the dining hall in A. Final total: 700 happy people; 200 sem=
i happy people; Dining hall would have 300 customers so it would be happy a=
nd maximize its revenue in line with the HDAG plan.
If you wanted to be a bit more student friendly you could take only the stu=
dent friendly half of David's plan. "David's Plan Unbalanced" Students w=
ould not have to sign up for the dining plans they chose if it meant walkin=
g next door. However, students who did not want the dorm's plan could stil=
l stay in their dorm. Under this plan everyone would be happy, except the =
dining hall would be money losing with only 100 customers. MIT could choo=
se to eat that loss until the next generation of students come, who would b=
e subject to that dorm's dining plan.
Although I would agree with you that algorithms proposed would maximize stu=
dent happiness more than HDAG's plan, even if no one decides to move anywhe=
re. If students decide to move because of their own personal preference fu=
nction, happiness would increase under each plan (even David's Unbalanced P=
lan would become more financially sustainable).
-Michael Plasmeier
From: Nils Molina [mailto:nilsmolina@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 5:40 PM
To: Michael E Plasmeier
Cc: Jessica Chen; ec-discuss; Andy Wu; Vrajesh Y Modi; Samantha G Wyman; ua=
-exec; baker-forum@mit.edu; Tom Gearty; cfs; ua-senate
Subject: Re: BAKER-FORUM: The Radical Plan on Dining Leads to MORE Choice
A problem with Plaz's algorithm:
Suppose you have 3 dorms, A, B & C. Each dorm has 300 students. In each dor=
m, 100 students want a dining plan, and 200 students do not want a dining p=
lan. Every student who wants a dining plan wouldn't want to move out of his=
/her dorm if his/her dorm didn't get a dining plan. Every student who doesn=
't want a dining plan would want to move out of his/her dorm if his/her dor=
m did get a dining plan.
Under Plaz's plan, an arbitrary dorm (let's say dorm A) would get a dining =
plan. However, the 200 students of dorm A who didn't want the plan would be=
unable to move out (even though they want to), making them very unhappy. T=
he 100 students of dorm B and the 100 students of dorm C would all be semi-=
unhappy because they didn't get the dining plan they got, but they don't wa=
nt to move out. In summary, you get 200 very unhappy students and 100 semi-=
unhappy students.
However, if instead you let all 3 dorms not have dining plans, then you'd g=
et 300 semi-unhappy students, which would be a far better scenario than hav=
ing 200 very unhappy students and 100 semi-unhappy students.
My point is that Plaz's plan can fail massively for maximizing happiness if=
chunks of people decide not to move out of their dorms. A better algorithm=
would ask people under what circumstances they would want to move out of t=
heir dorm, and then maximize student happiness in some manner. (All algorit=
hms proposed are better than HDAG's solution.)
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Michael E Plasmeier <theplaz@mit.edu<mailt=
o:theplaz@mit.edu>> wrote:
(Again sorry for spamming, but I think we are having a lively discussion on=
this issue)
The vast majority of people who wrote me trying to preserve the choice of c=
ulture independently of dining were from non-dining dorms. They argued th=
at you should not choose your dorm based on culture - but then they say tha=
t the really hope no dining hall will open in their dorm. THEY BASICALLY S=
AID THEY LIKE THEIR CURRENT DORM BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE DINING. And unde=
r my plan and David's plan that stays.
Look freshmen select a dorm based on a variety of factors: culture, facilit=
ies, room type, and, dining options, and cost. P(C, F, D, $, etc) [Prefere=
nce is a function of culture, facilities, dining, cost etc] Each student's =
preference function is different. Yes cost is important. So far it has be=
en more or less the same, so cost has not been an issue for the vast majori=
ty of freshmen. But cost is about to become a far bigger variable. My pla=
n says is that if one variable changes then we should allow students to rer=
un their preference function. Perhaps that would result in no change for t=
hem (since dining option and/or $$$ is not important to them) . Perhaps wh=
en the student reruns their personal preference function it would lead to a=
change in where they want to live. Lots of students said that at the Emer=
gency UA Senate meeting they would want to move out under the HDAG plan bec=
ause of cost. THERE MUST BE SOMEWHERE FOR THEM TO GO! Right? If so many =
people want to move out of hot breakfast and dining $3,800/year than less b=
eds should be available under that option on campus.
Look, all this choice in dining is expensive. MIT cannot offer every optio=
n to everybody everywhere at a price people are willing to pay. The vast m=
ajority of people I talk to in Baker say that they don't want all that choi=
ce at that ($3,800) price. It is also ironic that that vast majority of pe=
ople defending the "choice" of the dining hall forms live in dorms without =
dining halls. The 305 freshmen who listed Baker as their top choice in my =
year chose Baker because they either wanted the dinning under the current a=
rrangements or the $600/year was an acceptable tradeoff. What my plan does=
is let them rerun their preference function and make a new choice based on=
the new plan. Their choice according to their preference function. EACH =
STUDENT SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCE FUNCTON. Whose job is it=
to say that dining service level or cost should not go in anybody's dorm p=
reference function!!!!! This is the EC argument. Sure we would prefer tha=
t cost or dining service not be an issue. But the constraint is that we ca=
nnot have dining service choice (inside each dorm) and no associated cost. =
Look some people want to pay $3800 for all the hot breakfast and dinner th=
ey can eat. Some say no thank you. Give students a choice. Each student=
should be allowed to weight the dorms with the factors of their choosing a=
nd if a factor changes they should be allowed (not forced, however) to move=
out.
My plan leads to more choice. More choice than now. Far more choice than =
HDAG's plan.
Thank you very much
-Michael Plasmeier
(David's plan goes a step further and signs you up for your desired dining =
plan, which may be at another dorm. In exchange, it allows current student=
s to stay in their current dorm at the dining level they desire, which coul=
d be less than what the dorm offers.) Under my plan if you choose to stay =
at your current dorm you must accept the dining level that the minimizes th=
e number of people who would have to move on campus - likely the majority v=
iew of people in your dorm. See previous email about how costs can only be=
met through a pre-paid plan.
_______________________________________________
Baker-forum mailing list
Baker-forum@mit.edu<mailto:Baker-forum@mit.edu>
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/baker-forum
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well I th=
ink it all depends on the level of unhappiness. You break it down int=
o 3 levels:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Happiness - I=
got the dorm and dining I wanted<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'>-Semi-Unhappiness – I have the dorm I want, but not the dinin=
g plan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Very Unhappiness &=
#8211; I am forced to pay for a dining plan I do not want <o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'>But how will you be determining the levels of happiness relat=
ive to each other so that you can trade them off? Also with my assert=
ion that everyone’s dorm preference function is distinct and independ=
ent of everyone else’s how will you determine how to maximize happine=
ss. You could attempt to come up with an algorithm to at least measur=
e the average relative unhappiness between the different options. My =
plan focuses on only one type of unhappiness: not getting your desired dini=
ng level. If we were able to agree on the relative weights of happine=
ss, your plan would be able to better maximize happiness in some edge cases=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You also simplify the dining plan to 2 leve=
ls (dining/no dining) and only assume 3 houses are in play.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'>My plan also operates under the assumption that at least one=
dorm needs to offer hot breakfast. It depends what you weight: peopl=
e not getting less of a dining plan than they wanted or people not paying f=
or something they do not want. You prefer that students get less dini=
ng rather than more. Also you assume that the administration would no=
t run breakfast even if only 50 people campus wide want it. I have a =
feeling that they will insist on offering breakfast at least somewhere, eve=
n if the demand is ~50 people. They may decide this due to “obl=
igations” or admissions reasons.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You =
could also run the modifications some have suggested through your scenario.=
Take for example the plan proposed by David where people get the din=
ing level they select, no matter where they live (a move that protects reve=
nue) AND students can continue to live in their current dorm at their selec=
ted dining plan. “David Balanced Plan”. Under the scenari=
o you proposed, a random dorm (since preference was the same in each), say =
Dorm A would offer the dining plan. Again 400 people in Dorms B and C=
would be happy at no dining plan. The 100 students who wanted a dini=
ng plan in A would be happy to have one in A. The 200 students from D=
orm B and C who wanted a dining plan would be signed up for one. Thes=
e people would be a Semi-Happy (a new happiness level) in that they get the=
dining they want, but may need to walk next door. (They could likely=
not move into A, since no one would want to move out of A) The 200 s=
tudents who did not want a dining plan in A would just ignore the dining ha=
ll in A. Final total: 700 happy people; 200 semi happy people; Dining=
hall would have 300 customers so it would be happy and maximize its revenu=
e in line with the HDAG plan.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you wanted t=
o be a bit more student friendly you could take only the student friendly h=
alf of David’s plan. “David’s Plan Unbalanced”=
; Students would not have to sign up for the dining plans they =
chose if it meant walking next door. However, students who did not wa=
nt the dorm’s plan could still stay in their dorm. Under this p=
lan everyone would be happy, except the dining hall would be money lo=
sing with only 100 customers. MIT could choose to eat that loss until=
the next generation of students come, who would be subject to that dorm=
217;s dining plan.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Although I would agree wit=
h you that algorithms proposed would maximize student happiness more than H=
DAG’s plan, even if no one decides to move anywhere. If student=
s decide to move because of their own personal preference function, happine=
ss would increase under each plan (even David’s Unbalanced Plan would=
become more financially sustainable).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Mic=
hael Plasmeier<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> =
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nils Molina [mailto:nilsmolina@gm=
ail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 16, 2010 5:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Michael E Plasmeier<br><b>Cc:</b> Jessica Chen; ec-discuss; Andy Wu; Vrajes=
h Y Modi; Samantha G Wyman; ua-exec; baker-forum@mit.edu; Tom Gearty; cfs; =
ua-senate<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: BAKER-FORUM: The Radical Plan on Dining Le=
ads to MORE Choice<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><i>A problem wit=
h Plaz's algorithm:</i><br><br>Suppose you have 3 dorms, A, B & C. Each=
dorm has 300 students. In each dorm, 100 students want a dining plan, and =
200 students do not want a dining plan. Every student who wants a dining pl=
an wouldn't want to move out of his/her dorm if his/her dorm didn't get a d=
ining plan. Every student who doesn't want a dining plan would want to move=
out of his/her dorm if his/her dorm did get a dining plan.<br><br>Under Pl=
az's plan, an arbitrary dorm (let's say dorm A) would get a dining plan. Ho=
wever, the 200 students of dorm A who didn't want the plan would be unable =
to move out (even though they want to), making them very unhappy. The 100 s=
tudents of dorm B and the 100 students of dorm C would all be semi-unhappy =
because they didn't get the dining plan they got, but they don't want to mo=
ve out. In summary, you get 200 very unhappy students and 100 semi-unhappy =
students.<br><br>However, if instead you let all 3 dorms not have dining pl=
ans, then you'd get 300 semi-unhappy students, which would be a far better =
scenario than having 200 very unhappy students and 100 semi-unhappy student=
s.<br><br>My point is that Plaz's plan can fail massively for maximizing ha=
ppiness if chunks of people decide not to move out of their dorms. A better=
algorithm would ask people under what circumstances they would want to mov=
e out of their dorm, and then maximize student happiness in some manner. (A=
ll algorithms proposed are better than HDAG's solution.)<o:p></o:p></p><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Michael E Plasmeier =
<<a href=3D"mailto:theplaz@mit.edu">theplaz@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>(Again sorry for spamming, but I think we are hav=
ing a lively discussion on this issue)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto'>The vast majority of people who wrote me trying to preserve th=
e choice of culture independently of dining were from non-dining dorms.&nbs=
p; They argued that you should not choose your dorm based on culture =
– but then they say that the really hope no dining hall will open in =
their dorm. THEY BASICALLY SAID THEY LIKE THEIR CURRENT DORM BECAUSE =
IT DOES NOT HAVE DINING. And under my plan and David’s plan tha=
t stays. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Look=
freshmen select a dorm based on a variety of factors: culture, facilities,=
room type, and, dining options, and cost. P(C, F, D, $, etc) [Prefer=
ence is a function of culture, facilities, dining, cost etc] Each student&#=
8217;s preference function is different. Yes cost is important. =
So far it has been more or less the same, so cost has not been an issue fo=
r the vast majority of freshmen. But cost is about to become a far bi=
gger variable. My plan says is that if one variable changes then we s=
hould <u>allow</u> students to rerun their preference function. Perha=
ps that would result in no change for them (since dining option and/or $$$ =
is not important to them) . Perhaps when the student reruns their per=
sonal preference function it would lead to a change in where they want to l=
ive. Lots of students said that at the Emergency UA Senate meeting th=
ey would want to move out under the HDAG plan because of cost. THERE =
MUST BE SOMEWHERE FOR THEM TO GO! Right? If so many people want=
to move out of hot breakfast and dining $3,800/year than less beds should =
be available under that option on campus.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-b=
ottom-alt:auto'>Look, all this choice in dining is expensive. MIT can=
not offer every option to everybody everywhere at a price people are willin=
g to pay. The vast majority of people I talk to in Baker say that the=
y don’t want all that choice at that ($3,800) price. It is also=
ironic that that vast majority of people defending the “choice”=
; of the dining hall forms live in dorms without dining halls. The 30=
5 freshmen who listed Baker as their top choice in my year chose Baker beca=
use they either wanted the dinning under the current arrangements or the $6=
00/year was an acceptable tradeoff. What my plan does is let them rer=
un their preference function and make a new choice based on the new plan.&n=
bsp; Their choice according to their preference function. EACH STUDEN=
T SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCE FUNCTON. <b><u><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:14.0pt'>Whose job is it to say that dining service level or =
cost should not go in anybody’s dorm preference function!!!!!</span><=
/u></b> This is the EC argument. Sure we would prefer that cost=
or dining service not be an issue. But the constraint is that we can=
not have dining service choice (inside each dorm) and no associated cost.<b=
> Look some people want to pay $3800 for all the hot breakfast and di=
nner they can eat. Some say no thank you. Give students a choic=
e. Each student should be allowed to weight the dorms with the =
factors of their choosing and if a factor changes they should be allowed (n=
ot forced, however) to move out.</b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b> </b><o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto'><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>My plan leads to mo=
re choice. More choice than now. Far more choice than HDAG̵=
7;s plan.</b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>Th=
ank you very much</b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>-Michael Plasmeier</b><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto'><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ms=
o-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>(David’s plan goes =
a step further and signs you up for your desired dining plan, which may be =
at another dorm. In exchange, it allows current students to stay in t=
heir current dorm at the dining level they desire, which could be less than=
what the dorm offers.) Under my plan if you choose to stay at your c=
urrent dorm you must accept the dining level <b>that the minimizes the numb=
er of people who would have to move on campus – likely the majority v=
iew of people in your dorm. </b>See previous email about how costs ca=
n only be met through a pre-paid plan.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b> </b><o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-marg=
in-bottom-alt:auto'><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>__________________________________=
_____________<br>Baker-forum mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Baker-forum@=
mit.edu">Baker-forum@mit.edu</a><br><a href=3D"http://mailman.mit.edu/mailm=
an/listinfo/baker-forum" target=3D"_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/l=
istinfo/baker-forum</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> =
;</o:p></p></div></body></html>=
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