[487] in UA Senate
Re: Proposed New Business
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Ted Hilk)
Mon Mar 29 11:47:59 2010
In-Reply-To: <4BB0C792.4080601@mit.edu>
From: Ted Hilk <thilk@MIT.EDU>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:47:34 -0400
To: "Liz A. Denys" <lizdenys@mit.edu>
Cc: Sammi Wyman <swyman@mit.edu>, Tim Jenks <tjenks@mit.edu>,
Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>, UA Senate <ua-senate@mit.edu>
--0016e6d7e925ad1aae0482f26f01
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Overall, I think this request is rather bloated and unjustified.
It has been stated in the past that this event would not be funded directly
by Senate in future years. Further, there is no compelling reason that som=
e
aspects of it, e.g. the participation fee and t-shirts, should be funded by
an outside organization at all. Overall, it seems to me as though EMS is
either having difficulty tracking its own history (i.e. being told this
wouldn't be funded by us in the future) or is attempting to exploit a
perceived lack of organizational memory in the Senate itself. In the forme=
r
case, forgetfulness does not justify free funding, and in the latter, I fee=
l
it would be best to prove them wrong. Either way, based on my present
knowledge, I cannot support this bill.
Like Catherine, I would suggest they do a better job of following up with
LEF/ARCADE, which are more proper channels for this event than Senate. The
phrase "haven't heard from" implies a certain passivity that I don't think
justifies any funding from us, especially given the amount under
consideration.
Just my 2 cents.
Ted
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Liz A. Denys <lizdenys@mit.edu> wrote:
> Also, they are including the participation fee in their budget. Shouldn't
> that be covered by the participants?
>
> Is Senate really going to fund t-shirts?
>
> Sammi Wyman wrote:
>
>> Here is the funding request- Thanks for your patience everyone.
>> If there are specific line items you disagree with or you think the
>> request is for too much money, I encourage you to propose an amendment t=
o
>> eliminate certain line items, rather than just voting to give them no
>> funding. I've presented the funding request exactly as it was submitted=
to
>> me.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On Mar 29, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Tim Jenks wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the insight Alex.
>>> Sammi, do you have a budget for this event, so we can see a breakdown o=
f
>>> what the money would be spent on?
>>>
>>> My initial impressions are that this is a *lot* of money, especially to
>>> be recurring by precedent, when there are other channels through which
>>> funding can or should be obtained.
>>>
>>> --Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu <mailto=
:
>>> adehnert@mit.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> While considering this bill, I encourage the Senate to consider:
>>>
>>> =3D=3D Discussion of a similar bill last year =3D=3D
>>>
>>> The discussion we had of a similar bill by the same group last
>>> year (pages 7--8 of
>>> http://web.mit.edu/ua/minutes/UAS40/2009-03-16.pdf). Some
>>> particularly relevant comments, in my mind, include:
>>>
>>> * Keone Hon: Because you got it last year, it=92s an indication you
>>> likely won=92t this year because coming to the UA for funding isn=92=
t
>>> supposed to be recurring.
>>> * The discussion of alternate funding sources. I will note that
>>> MIT-EMS applied to LEF and Finboard for this allocation cycle.
>>> * The request from Senate is identical in amount to the request
>>> from LEF (though I don't recall what we decided, and I can't seem
>>> to find records anywhere).
>>> * The Finboard application didn't really talk about MassCPR much,
>>> though it was mentioned. All expected expenses should be included
>>> in Finboard applications. The relevant line item in the Spring
>>> allocations was "CPR classes $500".
>>>
>>> =3D=3D FPRC report =3D=3D
>>> The Financial Policy Review Committee's report, which Senate
>>> approved just last meeting
>>> (http://web.mit.edu/ua/committee/fprc/report/latest/report.pdf,
>>> especially chapter 3, "Senate-managed funds" --- pages 17--19)
>>>
>>> * "As a result, Senate=92s discussions of discretionary usage are
>>> often undirected. Over the past few semesters, many discussions
>>> rehashed the same sort of philosophical points. Further, the lack
>>> of clarity in what Senate Discretionary aimed to fund prompted
>>> concerns that those coming to and receiving money from Senate
>>> Discretionary were those who knew Senators, rather than those with
>>> the best ideas. Clarifying the purpose and intended uses should
>>> both allow discussions to be shorter
>>> and less repetitive, and give those uninvolved in the UA greater
>>> confidence as to when the Senate Discretionary Fund is a good
>>> source of funding."
>>> * "In light of the above, the FPRC recommends that Senate
>>> Discretionary Fund focus on funding the following:
>>> * Unique requests from students or student groups that do not
>>> meet Finboard regulations but either:
>>> 1. Benefit a large portion of the entire undergraduate student bo=
dy
>>> [...]
>>> * Unforeseeable events or initiatives run by student groups
>>> (Note: This does not include any events which the group could have
>>> handled during a regular Finboard cycle, if the group had been
>>> better prepared.)"
>>>
>>> =3D=3D Budget for the event =3D=3D
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, this seems to be missing from your email. Do you
>>> have one that you could forward.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd encourage you to discuss the bill via email.
>>>
>>> I'll be at Senate for any in-person discussion of this proposed
>>> bill. Should you choose to consider it (which I believe requires
>>> 2/3 vote due to the late notice), I'd be happy to provide any
>>> historical or financial perspective I can, especially if you
>>> provide an indication of what you'd like in advance so I can do
>>> any relevant research.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alex Dehnert
>>> UA Treasurer
>>> Interim Chair, UA History Committee
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/29/2010 01:18 AM, Sammi Wyman wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry this is late, guys, but I just got the funding request
>>> and the event is on April 4th, so I plan to bring up this bill
>>> as new business tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> =3D
>>
>
> --
> Liz A. Denys
> lizdenys@mit.edu
>
--0016e6d7e925ad1aae0482f26f01
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Overall, I think this request is rather bloated and unjustified.<div><br></=
div><div>It has been stated in the past that this event would not be funded=
directly by Senate in future years. =A0Further, there is no compelling rea=
son that some aspects of it, e.g. the participation fee and t-shirts, shoul=
d be funded by an outside organization at all. =A0Overall, it seems to me a=
s though EMS is either having difficulty tracking its own history (i.e. bei=
ng told this wouldn't be funded by us in the future) or is attempting t=
o exploit a perceived lack of organizational memory in the Senate itself. =
=A0In the former case, forgetfulness does not justify free funding, and in =
the latter, I feel it would be best to prove them wrong. =A0Either way, bas=
ed on my present knowledge, I cannot support this bill.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Like Catherine, I would suggest they do a better job of=
following up with LEF/ARCADE, which are more proper channels for this even=
t than Senate. =A0The phrase "haven't heard from" implies a c=
ertain passivity that I don't think justifies any funding from us, espe=
cially given the amount under consideration.<div>
<br></div><div>Just my 2 cents.</div><div><br></div><div>Ted</div><div><br>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Liz A. Den=
ys <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lizdenys@mit.edu">lizdenys@mit.e=
du</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Also, they are including the participation =
fee in their budget. Shouldn't that be covered by the participants?<br>
<br>
Is Senate really going to fund t-shirts?<br>
<br>
Sammi Wyman wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">
Here is the funding request- Thanks for your patience everyone. =A0<br>
If there are specific line items you disagree with or you think the request=
is for too much money, I encourage you to propose an amendment to eliminat=
e certain line items, rather than just voting to give them no funding. =A0I=
've presented the funding request exactly as it was submitted to me.<br=
>
<br>
<br></div><div class=3D"im">
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br=
>
<br>
=A0On Mar 29, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Tim Jenks wrote:<br>
<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">
Thanks for the insight Alex.<br>
Sammi, do you have a budget for this event, so we can see a breakdown of wh=
at the money would be spent on?<br>
<br>
My initial impressions are that this is a *lot* of money, especially to be =
recurring by precedent, when there are other channels through which funding=
can or should be obtained.<br>
<br>
--Tim<br>
<br>
<br></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Alex Dehnert <<a href=3D"mailto:adehner=
t@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">adehnert@mit.edu</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:adehnert@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">adehnert@mit.edu</a>>> wrote:=
<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0While considering this bill, I encourage the Senate to consider:<br=
>
<br>
=A0 =A0=3D=3D Discussion of a similar bill last year =3D=3D<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0The discussion we had of a similar bill by the same group last<br>
=A0 =A0year (pages 7--8 of<br>
=A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/ua/minutes/UAS40/2009-03-16.pdf" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://web.mit.edu/ua/minutes/UAS40/2009-03-16.pdf</a>). Some=
<br>
=A0 =A0particularly relevant comments, in my mind, include:<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0* Keone Hon: Because you got it last year, it=92s an indication you=
<br>
=A0 =A0likely won=92t this year because coming to the UA for funding isn=
=92t<br>
=A0 =A0supposed to be recurring.<br>
=A0 =A0* The discussion of alternate funding sources. I will note that<br>
=A0 =A0MIT-EMS applied to LEF and Finboard for this allocation cycle.<br>
=A0 =A0 * The request from Senate is identical in amount to the request<br=
>
=A0 =A0from LEF (though I don't recall what we decided, and I can'=
t seem<br>
=A0 =A0to find records anywhere).<br>
=A0 =A0 * The Finboard application didn't really talk about MassCPR mu=
ch,<br>
=A0 =A0though it was mentioned. All expected expenses should be included<b=
r>
=A0 =A0in Finboard applications. The relevant line item in the Spring<br>
=A0 =A0allocations was "CPR classes =A0 =A0 =A0 $500".<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0=3D=3D FPRC report =3D=3D<br>
=A0 =A0The Financial Policy Review Committee's report, which Senate<br=
>
=A0 =A0approved just last meeting<br>
=A0 =A0(<a href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/ua/committee/fprc/report/latest/repo=
rt.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://web.mit.edu/ua/committee/fprc/report/lates=
t/report.pdf</a>,<br>
=A0 =A0especially chapter 3, "Senate-managed funds" --- pages 17=
--19)<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0* "As a result, Senate=92s discussions of discretionary usage =
are<br>
=A0 =A0often undirected. Over the past few semesters, many discussions<br>
=A0 =A0rehashed the same sort of philosophical points. Further, the lack<b=
r>
=A0 =A0of clarity in what Senate Discretionary aimed to fund prompted<br>
=A0 =A0concerns that those coming to and receiving money from Senate<br>
=A0 =A0Discretionary were those who knew Senators, rather than those with<=
br>
=A0 =A0the best ideas. Clarifying the purpose and intended uses should<br>
=A0 =A0both allow discussions to be shorter<br>
=A0 =A0and less repetitive, and give those uninvolved in the UA greater<br=
>
=A0 =A0confidence as to when the Senate Discretionary Fund is a good<br>
=A0 =A0source of funding."<br>
=A0 =A0* "In light of the above, the FPRC recommends that Senate<br>
=A0 =A0Discretionary Fund focus on funding the following:<br>
=A0 =A0 * Unique requests from students or student groups that do not<br>
=A0 =A0meet Finboard regulations but either:<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 1. Benefit a large portion of the entire undergraduate student=
body<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 [...]<br>
=A0 =A0 * Unforeseeable events or initiatives run by student groups<br>
=A0 =A0(Note: This does not include any events which the group could have<=
br>
=A0 =A0handled during a regular Finboard cycle, if the group had been<br>
=A0 =A0better prepared.)"<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0=3D=3D Budget for the event =3D=3D<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0Unfortunately, this seems to be missing from your email. Do you<br>
=A0 =A0have one that you could forward.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0I'd encourage you to discuss the bill via email.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0I'll be at Senate for any in-person discussion of this proposed=
<br>
=A0 =A0bill. Should you choose to consider it (which I believe requires<br=
>
=A0 =A02/3 vote due to the late notice), I'd be happy to provide any<b=
r>
=A0 =A0historical or financial perspective I can, especially if you<br>
=A0 =A0provide an indication of what you'd like in advance so I can do=
<br>
=A0 =A0any relevant research.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0Thanks,<br>
=A0 =A0Alex Dehnert<br>
=A0 =A0UA Treasurer<br>
=A0 =A0Interim Chair, UA History Committee<br>
<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0On 03/29/2010 01:18 AM, Sammi Wyman wrote:<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Sorry this is late, guys, but I just got the funding reques=
t<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0and the event is on April 4th, so I plan to bring up this b=
ill<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0as new business tomorrow.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Thanks!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote>
<br>
=3D<br>
</blockquote><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
-- <br>
Liz A. Denys<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:lizdenys@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">lizdenys@mit.edu</a><=
br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br>
</div></div>
--0016e6d7e925ad1aae0482f26f01--
