[53735] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Cyberattack FUD
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Schwartz)
Thu Nov 21 23:35:18 2002
From: David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>
To: <avg@exigengroup.com>, Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
Cc: <nanog@nanog.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:34:27 -0800
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0211211958590.27111-100000@arch.exigengroup.com>
Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu
On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:12:20 -0800 (PST), Vadim Antonov wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Barry Shein wrote:
>>The attack on the WTC not only took out the WTC, it essentially=
has
>>taken out our airline industry.
>It may be argued that airline industry has taken out itself by=
first not
>having elementary precautions (like closed cockpit doors and=
having pilots
>to carry guns, with adequate training) which are standard in=
less
>complacent parts of the world,
=09I've heard this argument many times, but it's just plain false.=
And so
obviously false that I always look for an ulterior motive when I=
hear it.
=09Suppose, for example, we'd had closed cockpit doors. The 9/11=
terrorists
would have threatened the lives of the passengers and crew to=
induce the
pilots to open the doors. The pilots would have opened the doors=
because the
reasoning until that time was that you did whatever the hostages=
told you to
do until you could get the plane on the ground.
=09It was the rules of engagement that failed. Nothing more,=
nothing less.
>and then by making life truly miserable for
>those who wish or have to travel, in a fit of post-disaster=
paranoia.
=09The airline industry did that?
>It is not enemies who are savvy, it is managers who are stupid. =
Like, the
>"crash airplane into some high-value target" scenario was=
well-aired more
>than decade ago
=09Not the "crash jetliner full of passengers into high-value=
target" scenario.
If you were able to make the decision to shoot down or not shoot=
down the two
jetliners before either struck a building, knowing only that they=
were not
responding and probably hijaacked, what would you have done?
=09Imagine if the U.S. had shot down all the planes. What would=
people be
saying about all the innocent people the military had murdered?
=09Again, it's the rules of engagement that failed.
>- and it is only due to total incompetence of airline
>security people that this was allowed to happen.
=09So tell me what they should have done differently. Not allowed=
knives on the
plane? The terrorists would have used their bare hands. Strip=
searched every
passenger? Arm their pilots -- they weren't allowed to.
> I hope that US airlines
>go out of business and El Al moves in; isn't that what=
competition is
>supposed to be about?
=09Except that there is no competition. Airlines don't get to make=
their own
security rules, they're largely preempted by the government=
ownership and
control of airports and the FARs.
>The same holds for the Internet (with special thanks to the=
toothless
>antimonopoly enforcement which allowed operating systems to=
become a
>monoculture).
=09This is a great bit of double-think. It has nothing to do with=
the fact that
people overwhelmingly prefer to have compatible operating=
systems, it's the
fact that nobody forced them to diversify against their will.
=09DS
