[39478] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: DDoS attacks
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Jon O .)
Thu Jul 12 02:27:19 2001
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:26:50 -0700
From: "Jon O ." <jono@microshaft.org>
To: Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il>
Cc: "jono@networkcommand.com" <jono@microshaft.org>,
Roeland Meyer <rmeyer@mhsc.com>,
"'Scott Francis'" <darkuncle@darkuncle.net>,
"Richard A. Steenbergen" <ras@e-gerbil.net>,
Ariel Biener <ariel@fireball.tau.ac.il>, nanog@merit.edu
Message-ID: <20010711232650.G15099@networkcommand.com>
Reply-To: "jono@networkcommand.com" <jono@microshaft.org>
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In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712083927.00ac3100@max.att.net.il>; from hank@att.net.il on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 08:43:29AM +0200
Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu
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On 12-Jul-2001, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> At 22:36 11/07/01 -0700, Jon O . wrote:
> >Ariel:
> >
> >
> >
> >You initial email asked for AboveNet contact. Did you get some assistanc=
e=20
> >and if so what was the resolution? This is very important for us to know=
=20
> >so we can kind of keep track of cooperative ISPs and the ones that just=
=20
> >ignore these problems.
>=20
> And then what? Suppose you had a list of non-cooperative ISPs? What=20
> then? Experience has shown that the ISPs that don't care, won't care no=
=20
> matter what you say or do (those who follow FIRST know I have a lot to sa=
y=20
> on this matter, but have been holding back to give those non-cooperative=
=20
> ISPs time to make matters right - we are now on day 5 of a continuous=20
> non-spoofed 20Mb/sec dDoS attack :-)). Convince me why a list of=20
> non-cooperative ISPs is a thing that would help.
Well, the way I see it this internet thing is new to a lot of companies. So=
me are finding out the hardway what works, what doesn't. Quite a bit of the=
normal controls to prevent bad service, etc. are not in place.
I'm sure you've heard of the Better Business Burea, The Chamber of Commerce=
, etc? Well, I wan't suggesting making a list, I was suggesting he report h=
is interaction with that company to you guys. This might allow NANOG to kno=
w how this or that ISP is responding to requests. You can sit by and say ex=
perience has shown and you're right. However, that is because no one is cal=
ling for any responsibility. There is no review and no drawbacks to acting =
with complete disregard. Well, just reporting that I spoke with X ISP and t=
hey attempted to cooperate or they didn't care at all is a small first step=
. If someone then took these reports and passed them to Boardwatch, or what=
ever the ISP might end up answering to someone.
There is quite a bit of helplessness and inaction going on when it comes to=
these types of situations and BIG ISP can get away with whatever they want=
. Well, experience has shown that if you organize the "little" people can i=
nfluence the BIGGER.
>=20
> -Hank
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >Thanks,
> >Jon
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