[35588] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Broken Internet? [OT]
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mathew Butler)
Tue Mar 13 17:43:05 2001
Message-ID: <F062E72E4BA2D4119F1700B0D03D205F3B7E@mail.tonbu.com>
From: Mathew Butler <mbutler@tonbu.com>
To: 'Roeland Meyer' <rmeyer@mhsc.com>,
'Patrick Greenwell' <patrick@cybernothing.org>,
"Steven M. Bellovin" <smb@research.att.com>
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:37:02 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC05.BD9EF8A0"
Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC05.BD9EF8A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
*ponders*
Is it possible that our technical solutions are at least contributorially
responsible for the economic slowdown? (Small businesses can't get
connected, so large numbers of high-money dotcoms get massive amounts of
funding, but few of them can make any money, so their debts skyrocket, and
the massive power shifts happen?)
Don't mind me, I'm just pondering.
-Mat
-----Original Message-----
From: Roeland Meyer [mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:53 PM
To: 'Patrick Greenwell'; Steven M. Bellovin
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Broken Internet?
> From: Patrick Greenwell [mailto:patrick@cybernothing.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:29 AM
> to change the fact that these alternative root server
> networks exist and
> that the Internet still works, mostly(as I'm sure you'd agree
> it's always a little broken.)
That is an understatement (a little broken). I have just been introduced to
one of those broken areas, the hard way.
Given:
1. Prefix filtering at /20.
2. Most small busineses limited to /24, by policy/procedure.
3. Multi-homing requirements for multi-office businesses (many SOHO's).
4. Impending business failure of many DSL ISPs.
5. Total lack of responsibile behavior among DSL access providers.
It is next to impossible for a small business to have reliable internet
connectivity without moving into a large co-lo. Even if they can afford the
multiple T1's, they can't get portable IP addresses that will be advertised
reliably. Many of them need, at most, a pair of /24's and ARIN, knowing
this, will not issue them portable blocks larger than /24 without severe
justification requirements.
Many of you might think that is okay, but what if their upstream dies off
(as recently happened to MHSC). In the current day and age, business stops
until they get reconnected. This disconnect is at minimum, 4-6 weeks, under
the best of circumstances. As one vendor recently pointed out in their
adverts, most businesses, down for more than 14 days, will never survive.
More importantly, such an outage flat-lines the revenue picture for that
entire fiscal quarter, for the unlucky victim.
What we have today is a manufactured dependence on a single upstream
provider and no way to multi-home. Even co-lo boils down to single-home
dependency.
Yes, there are a bunch of hacks to work around this problem. But, that is
exactly what they are ... hacks. They are not something I could build a
sustainable business around.
Any business needs:
1. to be able to change upstream providers without having to renumber.
2. to be able to change access providers without having to suffer
multi-month down-times.
3. to be able to have its net-block(s) visible regardless of which ISPs they
are currently using.
Currently the only ones that can do that are those that;
1. Are large enough to justify a /20 (begging the question of how they got
that large).
2. Can afford their own datacenter.
It looks like our technical solutions are raising unreasonable barriers to
entry for small businesses.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC05.BD9EF8A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: Broken Internet? [OT]</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>*ponders*</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Is it possible that our technical solutions are at =
least contributorially responsible for the economic slowdown? =
(Small businesses can't get connected, so large numbers of high-money =
dotcoms get massive amounts of funding, but few of them can make any =
money, so their debts skyrocket, and the massive power shifts =
happen?)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Don't mind me, I'm just pondering.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-Mat</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Roeland Meyer [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com">mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:53 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: 'Patrick Greenwell'; Steven M. Bellovin</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cc: nanog@merit.edu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Broken Internet?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> From: Patrick Greenwell [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:patrick@cybernothing.org">mailto:patrick@cybernothing.org=
</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:29 AM</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> to change the fact that these alternative root =
server </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> networks exist and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> that the Internet still works, mostly(as I'm =
sure you'd agree </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> it's always a little broken.) </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>That is an understatement (a little broken). I have =
just been introduced to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>one of those broken areas, the hard way.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Given:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1. Prefix filtering at /20.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2. Most small busineses limited to /24, by =
policy/procedure.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>3. Multi-homing requirements for multi-office =
businesses (many SOHO's).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>4. Impending business failure of many DSL =
ISPs.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>5. Total lack of responsibile behavior among DSL =
access providers.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It is next to impossible for a small business to have =
reliable internet</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>connectivity without moving into a large co-lo. Even =
if they can afford the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>multiple T1's, they can't get portable IP addresses =
that will be advertised</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>reliably. Many of them need, at most, a pair of =
/24's and ARIN, knowing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>this, will not issue them portable blocks larger =
than /24 without severe</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>justification requirements.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Many of you might think that is okay, but what if =
their upstream dies off</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(as recently happened to MHSC). In the current day =
and age, business stops</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>until they get reconnected. This disconnect is at =
minimum, 4-6 weeks, under</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the best of circumstances. As one vendor recently =
pointed out in their</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>adverts, most businesses, down for more than 14 =
days, will never survive.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>More importantly, such an outage flat-lines the =
revenue picture for that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>entire fiscal quarter, for the unlucky =
victim.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What we have today is a manufactured dependence on a =
single upstream</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>provider and no way to multi-home. Even co-lo boils =
down to single-home</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>dependency.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Yes, there are a bunch of hacks to work around this =
problem. But, that is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>exactly what they are ... hacks. They are not =
something I could build a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>sustainable business around.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Any business needs:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1. to be able to change upstream providers without =
having to renumber.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2. to be able to change access providers without =
having to suffer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>multi-month down-times.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>3. to be able to have its net-block(s) visible =
regardless of which ISPs they</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>are currently using.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Currently the only ones that can do that are those =
that;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1. Are large enough to justify a /20 (begging the =
question of how they got</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that large).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2. Can afford their own datacenter.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It looks like our technical solutions are raising =
unreasonable barriers to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>entry for small businesses.</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC05.BD9EF8A0--
