[194940] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Vendors spamming NANOG attendees
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rodney Joffe)
Tue Jun 13 11:57:10 2017
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Rodney Joffe <rjoffe@centergate.com>
In-Reply-To: <1CFA0A13-7AFE-4489-B9EB-35DB0403E74D@beckman.org>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:57:05 -0700
To: Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
> On Jun 13, 2017, at 8:31 AM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
>=20
> Rodney,
>=20
> You said "I see something every couple of months that I can track back to N=
ANOG, or ARIN."
>=20
> I would hardly call this a flood. But my point is that most people posting=
to NANOG, being technical people, respond to notifications that they are sp=
amming. Your example email illustrates this perfectly. Sometimes they're ign=
orant and don't realize they're spamming. If they're persistent they get rem=
oved from the list (I don't think that has had to happen for several years).=
>=20
> The remaining spammers are easily caught by filters, as you can plainly se=
e.
>=20
> I don't see your need for urgency, and you still haven't said what you pro=
pose as a better arrangement. I made my suggestion. What's yours?
I'm one of 10,000. I assume others see as many as I do (I have no idea how m=
any get caught in my filters).
I don't recall calling this a flood. Did I? And I don't believe he is on the=
list so there's no way to "remove" him. I think the list does a good job o=
ver time "training" subscribers.=20
But I did say that if others don't respond to spammers to this list from ven=
dors, it will become a problem. The list is fertile ground. And I'm not sure=
that Sterns response indicates any awareness. He admitted he used the 1,300=
person attendee list as a prospecting tool.=20
So all that I am suggesting is that others take the time to respond to spam f=
rom vendors (as I did) rather than ignoring it (just hitting delete doesn't w=
ork out in the long run). I have to assume that after a reasonable number of=
people do complain to his company, they'll learn. And others on the list wh=
o are tempted, change their minds. I don't think the list itself per se suf=
fers from a spam problem - although my 3 emails probably qualify as too much=
noise already. But it is vendors who use the list to prospect who should be=
discouraged.
Btw I have no doubt that rogue salesmen from my companies over the years hav=
e tried it once. When I find out about it, I do kick butts.
I'm hoping that this discussion is enough to get Calient to rethink their st=
rategy. For crying out loud, the guy is a VP in their company. What kind of=
example is that?
I'll end my public noise here :-)
Rodney
>=20
> -mel=20
>=20
>> On Jun 13, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Rodney Joffe <rjoffe@centergate.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Rodney,
>>>=20
>>> What do you suggest? Shoot them at Dawn? :-)=20
>>>=20
>>> The standard warning and education has always been adequate in the past.=
We don't have a runaway spamming problem on the list.
>>=20
>> What standard warning and education?
>>=20
>> We have filters to stop spam making it to the list.
>>=20
>> But there is definitely a spamming problem of sorts amongst vendors, to s=
ubscriber addresses.=20
>>=20
>> I see something every couple of months that I can track back to NANOG, or=
ARIN.
>>=20
>> What I *know* is that if you open the door, and ignore it with vendors on=
NANOG, the list members will end up having a problem. If you want to know w=
hy I consider myself an expert, feel free to ask me offline about what the a=
ttitude that those of us who ran "the backbone" in 1994 had - and how that w=
orked out.
>>=20
>> On the other hand, as a senior citizen, at the end of my tech days, with e=
nable grudgingly given up, I guess I could turn away and say "not my problem=
, really".
>>=20
>> YMMV.
>>>=20
>>> -mel beckman
>>>=20
>>>> On Jun 13, 2017, at 6:00 AM, Rodney Joffe <rjoffe@centergate.com> wrote=
:
>>>>=20
>>>> It seems that more than just a few of us were spammed by Glenn Stern (g=
stern@calient.net), an employee of Calient following NANOG 70.
>>>>=20
>>>> The spammer had the balls to say, in his email:
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> We do not know each other. I'm leveraging the attendee list for NANOG t=
o reach out and raise awareness of the value of OCS (Optical Circuit Switchi=
ng) in the data center and in particular, the Carrier Neutral Hotel where we=
've been active with next generation MeetMeRoom discussions.
>>>>=20
>>>> He does not show as an attendee at NANOG, but another executive, David A=
ltstaetter, daltstaetter@calient.net did register, and may have even shown u=
p. Hopefully those of you who have traditional community attitudes will show=
your reaction via your pocketbooks.
>>>>=20
>>>> Maybe its time for the NANOG board and staff to step in, and develop so=
me teeth to use in cases like these? Unless the majority of you members are c=
ool with unfettered spamming of member and attendee lists. In which case, ha=
ve at it!
>>>>=20
>>>> Rodney
>>=20
