[179522] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Low cost WDM gear
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kenneth McRae)
Thu Apr 16 20:23:54 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
To: Justin Wilson - MTIN <lists@mtin.net>
From: Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 00:23:48 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Michelle speaks English.=0A=0AOn Apr 16, 2015, at 09:04 AM, Justin Wilson =
- MTIN <lists@mtin.net> wrote:=0A=0ADoes anyone have a English speaking re=
p for FiberStore? I have a client with a difficult time ordering some cust=
om stuff. Language barrier is a big issue.=0A=0A=0A=0AJustin Wilson j2sw@m=
tin.net=0Ahttp://www.mtin.net Managed Services =E2=80=93 xISP Solutions =E2=
=80=93 Data Centers=0Ahttp://www.thebrotherswisp.com Podcast about xISP to=
pics=0Ahttp://www.midwest-ix.com Peering =E2=80=93 Transit =E2=80=93 Inter=
net Exchange =0A=0AOn Feb 7, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcra=
e@me.com> wrote:=0A=0AI will live vicariously though your experiences with=
them. I'm good on FiberStore. :-)=0A=0AThanks for the feedback..=0A=0AOn =
Feb 07, 2015, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=
=0A=0AMaybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning p=
oint in their customer service attitudes...=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0AS=
nappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiami, FL 33155=0ATel: 305 =
663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Sn=
appytelecom.net=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ATo: "Fais=
al Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1t=
elecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, February 7, 20=
15 4:24:18 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0APoint taken on the spe=
cs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never =
expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied wit=
h the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as expec=
ted should not have to be escalated to the President of the company.=0A=0A=
Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-)=0A=0AOn Feb 07=
, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0A=
My point is......=0A... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs.=0AIf the Sp=
ecs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mf=
g shortcoming (defect).=0A=0AMfg. Engineers are people, just like you and =
me.... and people can make mistakes...=0ABeing an Engineer, when I ask som=
eone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I doubl=
e check their work.... Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too.=0A=0AWh=
ile it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and h=
aving a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg=
products are bad is a whole different issue.=0A=0AI deal with FiberStore,=
my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, d=
id not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked.=0A=0ARegards.=
=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiam=
i, FL 33155=0ATel: 305 663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option=
2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mc=
rae@me.com>=0ATo: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodrig=
o 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: S=
aturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0A=
That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing =
the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by=
a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. =
When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should kn=
ow the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a=
certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect.=0A=
=0AThat is pretty basic.=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz =
<faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AMore power to you ....=0A=0AI alway=
s get a chuckle out of statements such as ... "Compared FiberStore to anot=
her Vendor"...=0A=0AIt was pointed out to me long time ago.... when someon=
e said.. "My Chevy is better than a Ford"....=0ASomeone pointed out, hey, =
which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta o=
r Mustang ?=0A=0A=0AEvery mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they a=
re always getting improved...=0A=0AOne has to pay attention to the specs..=
even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs=
!=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Str=
eet=0AMiami, FL 33155=0ATel: 305 663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5=
518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <=
kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ATo: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0AC=
c: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=
=0ASent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM=
gear=0A=0AThat's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to m=
ake sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now perfor=
med an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss =
on the mux and optics.=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <f=
aisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AIf you pay close attention to the Spe=
c Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper =
calculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active=
will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs.=0A=0AIf you don=
't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on=
whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very like=
ly to be surprised in a bad way.=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Inter=
net & Telecom=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "Rodrigo 1telecom"=
<rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>=0ATo: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0A=
Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 P=
M=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0AWhat others vendors do you using? Her=
e in Brazil only PADTEC have this=0Apassive solution... Some days ago Digi=
tel contact me to show your multiplex=0Asolution... Is a active solution..=
.=0AWe import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy=
10G=0Asfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux...=0AEnviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF=0AGr=
upo Connectoway=0AEm 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 16:04, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcr=
ae@me.com> escreveu:=0A=0AHi Enviado,=0A=0AI cannot recommend FiberStore a=
s I had a bad experience with them. I=0Aneeded to cover only 3km from A to=
B side. When using 10km optics, I saw=0Aa loss of over 5db with their pas=
sive mux inserted into the path which=0Acreated a total loss of over -20db=
which is outside of the tolerances for=0Aour equipment with 10km SFP+. Us=
ing another vendors low insertion loss=0Amux corrected our issue. I am sur=
e if you are using an 80km optic, you=0Amay be able to tolerate a higher i=
nsertion loss to cover < 60km. I also=0Anotice that their CDWM optics aver=
aged about 3db less in power output when=0Acompared to other vendors.=0A=0A=
Thanks=0A=0AKenneth=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <r=
odrigo@1telecom.com.br>=0Awrote:=0A=0A=0AHi kenneth... which the distance =
do you have from side A to side B when=0Ayou using passive solutions from =
fiberstore( mux and demux)?=0AI buy this mux and demux(4 channels single f=
iber) and only make a test=0Aabout 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) w=
ith sfp+10gb for 80km... (=0Aonly see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60=
km). Test switch access with=0Assh and pinging tests...=0AWhat kind os iss=
ue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this=0Asolution good?=0ATh=
anks!!!=0A=0AEnviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF=0AGrupo Connectoway=0A=0AEm 07/0=
2/2015, =C3=A0s 14:55, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> escreveu:=0AMi=
ke,=0AI just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Har=
dware=0Aequipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessiv=
e=0Aloss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without=0Athreat=
ening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI=0Aequipmen=
t so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels).=0AOn Feb 07, 201=
5, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Mar=C3=ADn <mmg@transtelco.net> wrote:=0AHi Mike=0A=
I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective=0Asolution=
s.=0AEkinops & Packetlight.=0AOn Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett =
<nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:=0AI know there are various Asian vendors for low=
cost (less than $500)=0Amuxes=0Ato throw 16 or however many colors onto a=
strand. However, they don't=0Awork=0Aso well when you don't control the o=
ptics used on both sides (therefore=0Amust use standard wavelengths), obvi=
ously only do a handful of channels=0Aand=0Ahave a distance limitation.=0A=
What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg?=0A-----=0AM=
ike Hammett=0AIntelligent Computing Solutions=0Ahttp://www.ics-il.com=0A--=
=0ATRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX:=
=0A*+52=0A656-257-1109*=0ACONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is in=
tended only for the use=0Aof the individual or entity to which it is addre=
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