[179515] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Low cost WDM gear
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Justin Wilson - MTIN)
Thu Apr 16 12:02:03 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Justin Wilson - MTIN <lists@mtin.net>
In-Reply-To: <cb924935-18f6-4810-82c3-53eb4bcb5ac6@me.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:01:58 -0400
To: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Does anyone have a English speaking rep for FiberStore? I have a client =
with a difficult time ordering some custom stuff. Language barrier is a =
big issue.
Justin Wilson j2sw@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net Managed Services =E2=80=93 xISP Solutions =E2=80=93 =
Data Centers
http://www.thebrotherswisp.com Podcast about xISP topics
http://www.midwest-ix.com Peering =E2=80=93 Transit =E2=80=93 Internet =
Exchange=20
> On Feb 7, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> =
wrote:
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> I will live vicariously though your experiences with them. I'm good =
on FiberStore. :-)
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> Thanks for the feedback..
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> On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> =
wrote:
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> Maybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning =
point in their customer service attitudes...=20
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> :)
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> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
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> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net=20=
> From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" =
<nanog@nanog.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:24:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
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> Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service =
and tech support. I never expect to be told that no refund will be =
issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA =
because something is not working as expected should not have to be =
escalated to the President of the company.=20
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> Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-)
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> On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> =
wrote:
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> My point is......
> ... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs.
> If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what =
determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect).
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> Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me.... and people can =
make mistakes...=20
> Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask =
them to explain it, and this way I double check their work.... Yes Mfg. =
Engineers are known to F***up too.
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> While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. =
and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of =
that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue.
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> I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when =
stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no =
questions asked.
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> Regards.=20
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> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>=20
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net=20=
> From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" =
<nanog@nanog.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
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> That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity =
providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some =
MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet =
advertised specs. When you engage the engineering folks to assist in a =
build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone =
else. If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that =
is exactly what I expect.
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> That is pretty basic.
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> On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> =
wrote:
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> More power to you ....=20
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> I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... "Compared =
FiberStore to another Vendor"... =20
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> It was pointed out to me long time ago.... when someone said.. "My =
Chevy is better than a Ford"....
> Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the =
Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ?
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> Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always =
getting improved...
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> One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products =
at different times don't have the same specs !
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> :)
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> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>=20
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net=20=
> From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" =
<nanog@nanog.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
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> That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make =
sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now =
performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. =
Excessive loss on the mux and optics.=20
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> On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> =
wrote:
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> If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, =
insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your =
link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless =
the devices do not meet specified specs.
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> If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy =
stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you =
are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way.
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> :)
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> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>
> To: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
> What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this
> passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your =
multiplex
> solution... Is a active solution...
> We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy =
10G
> sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux...
> Enviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF
> Grupo Connectoway
>> Em 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 16:04, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> =
escreveu:
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>> Hi Enviado,
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>> I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I
>> needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I =
saw
>> a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path =
which
>> created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances =
for
>> our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion =
loss
>> mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, =
you
>> may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km. I =
also
>> notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output =
when
>> compared to other vendors.
>>=20
>> Thanks
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>> Kenneth
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>>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom =
<rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>
>>> wrote:
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>>=20
>>> Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B =
when
>>> you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)?
>>> I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a =
test
>>> about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for =
80km... (
>>> only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access =
with
>>> ssh and pinging tests...
>>> What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this
>>> solution good?
>>> Thanks!!!
>>>=20
>>> Enviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF
>>> Grupo Connectoway
>>>=20
>>>> Em 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 14:55, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> =
escreveu:
>>>> Mike,
>>>> I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI =
Hardware
>>>> equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive
>>>> loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without
>>>> threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the =
OSI
>>>> equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels).
>>>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Mar=C3=ADn =
<mmg@transtelco.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Mike
>>>> I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective
>>>> solutions.
>>>> Ekinops & Packetlight.
>>>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> =
wrote:
>>>> I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than =
$500)
>>>> muxes
>>>> to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they =
don't
>>>> work
>>>> so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides =
(therefore
>>>> must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of =
channels
>>>> and
>>>> have a distance limitation.
>>>> What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg?
>>>> -----
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>> --
>>>> TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | =
MX:
>>>> *+52
>>>> 656-257-1109*
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