[178029] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Richard Porter)
Thu Feb 12 20:08:33 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Richard Porter <richard@pedantictheory.com>
In-Reply-To: <6c779d004606ac07f09fb8747a3d5ff0@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 18:08:25 -0700
To: Ahad Aboss <ahad@telcoinabox.com>,
skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com
Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
> On Feb 12, 2015, at 5:43 PM, Ahad Aboss <ahad@telcoinabox.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Skeeve,
>=20
> In a sense, you are an artist as network architecture is an art in =
itself.
> It involves interaction with time, processes, people and things or an
> intersection between all.
And to that, artwork would fall under copyright *Sarcasm*? +1 on art =
form! More like an abstract martial art really. PacketFu!
>=20
> As an architect, you analyze customer needs and design a solution =
using
> your creative ideas to address their business driven needs today. In =
some
> ways, this is easier because creating a
If you are a consultant wouldn=E2=80=99t that fall under work for hire? =
If you are an employee? Check the contract, I am betting there is a =
clause for IP ownership!
> business centric network provides you some parameters to design =
within.
> You might mix and match technologies that will suite one business =
better
> than the other but it's your creative ideas. It's not secrets of their
> trade that you replicate or takeaway. You are master of the trade and =
you
> design a solution that works best for them.
>=20
> While some design principles for application service provider, =
enterprise,
> carrier or ISP have similarities, no two network is the same.
>=20
> If you don't claim IP on the design or publish company names you've =
done
> the designs for, under what jurisdiction can they claim what you =
designed
> is their IP? What if their requirement changes in 6 months from now?
>=20
> If a architect designs a road system in a particular way, does it mean
> he/she can't design another road again because of IP issue?
>=20
> I would tend to disagree.
+1
>=20
> It may not answer your questions but I hope it provides some content =
to
> support your case :)
>=20
> Regards,
> Ahad
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
> Sent: Friday, 13 February 2015 6:46 AM
> To: William Herrin
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Intellectual Property in Network Design
>=20
> The extent to which this is technically feasible and how one must go =
about
> it actually varies greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
>=20
> Something well worth considering given the number of jurisdictions =
already
> mentioned in the current discussion.
>=20
> There are a number of possible concerns that the customer in question =
may
> be attempting to solve with their request. The first step is to =
identify
> which concern(s) they want to address.
>=20
> 1. Do they want to make sure that they have sufficient =
rights
> in
> the design that they can replicate/modify/otherwise use =
it
> without further compensating you?
>=20
> 2. Do they want to make sure that you surrender your rights
> in
> the design so that you are not able to provide an
> identical
> solution to another customer in the future and/or that =
you
> do
> not use their design as an example or case study for =
your
> marketing purposes?
>=20
> 3. Do they not really have a concern, but someone told them
> that it was important to ask this question?
>=20
> 4. Do they want to make sure this treated as a "work for
> hire"
> with all the legal implications that caries?
>=20
> There are probably others that I am not thinking of at the moment.
>=20
> Owen
>=20
>> On Feb 12, 2015, at 08:18 , William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
>>=20
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 7:36 AM, Skeeve Stevens
>> <skeeve+nanog@eintellegonetworks.com> wrote:
>>> Actually Bill... I have two (conflicting) perspectives as I said....
>>> but to
>>> clarify:
>>>=20
>>> 1) A customer asked 'Can you make sure we have the IP for the =
network
>>> design' which I was wondering if it is even technically possible....
>>=20
>> Hi Skeeve,
>>=20
>> IANAL but I play one when I can get away with it.
>>=20
>> This is usually covered as, "Contractor agrees to provide Customer
>> with all documents, diagrams, software or other materials produced in
>> the course of the contract. Contractor shall upon request assign all
>> ownership of such materials to Customer. Contractor shall retain no
>> copies of said material following termination of the contract."
>>=20
>> So yes, it's technically feasible.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> 2) If I design some amazing solutions... am I able to claim IP.
>>=20
>> If it's copyrightable (a "solution" may be), then as a contractor =
(not
>> an employee) the copyright vests in you. If the contract states that
>> you agree to transfer it to the customer then you breach the contract
>> if you don't.
>>=20
>> If the contract says the copyrights are theirs then at least that =
part
>> of the contract is probably void. Barring W2 employment copyrights
>> nearly always vest in the individual who first put them in to a
>> tangible form. There are explicit and narrow exceptions in the law.
>> Preface of a book. That sort of thing. It's unlikely you'll run afoul
>> of any of them.
>>=20
>> Lawyers get this wrong shockingly often. IP doesn't vest in the
>> customer and can't be transferred until it exists. The creator is a =
W2
>> employee. The contractor agrees to transfer it following creation.
>> Just about everything else is void.
>>=20
>> If the contract doesn't say one way or another then the lawyer who
>> wrote it was asleep at the wheel.
>>=20
>> However... the techniques used to produce the solution usually
>> classify as ideas. You may be bound under non-disclosure terms to not
>> share ideas produced for the customer within the scope of the
>> customer's system but ideas are never property. You can't own them =
and
>> neither can the customer.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Bill Herrin
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> William Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us
>> Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
