[177899] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Low cost WDM gear
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kenneth McRae)
Sat Feb 7 16:39:16 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
To: Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
From: Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 21:30:25 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
I will live vicariously though your experiences with them. =C2=A0I'm good =
on FiberStore. =C2=A0:-)=0A=0AThanks for the feedback..=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 20=
15, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AMayb=
e, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning point in th=
eir customer service attitudes...=C2=A0=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnapp=
y Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiami, FL 33155=0ATel: 305 663 =
5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappy=
telecom.net =0A=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ATo: "Fais=
al Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1t=
elecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, February 7, 20=
15 4:24:18 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0APoint taken on the spe=
cs.. =C2=A0Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. =C2=
=A0I never expect to be told that no refund will be issued when I am dissa=
tisfied with the product. =C2=A0 A request for RMA because something is no=
t working as expected should not have to be escalated to the President of =
the company.=C2=A0=0A=0AOther than that I am sure FiberStore is a great co=
mpany :-)=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappyt=
elecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AMy point is......=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ... The thing to=
rely on is/are the Specs.=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If =
the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the produc=
t's mfg shortcoming (defect).=0A=0A=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mfg. Engineers are people=
, just like you and me.... and people can make mistakes...=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask =
them to explain it, and this way I double check their work.... Yes Mfg. En=
gineers are known to =C2=A0F***up too.=0A=0AWhile it is expected to be dis=
appointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealin=
g with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole=
different issue.=0A=0AI deal with FiberStore, my experience have been ver=
y different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they =
took it back no questions asked.=0A=0ARegards.=C2=A0=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0A=
Snappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiami, FL 33155=0ATel: 305=
663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@S=
nappytelecom.net =0A=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ATo: =
"Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodri=
go@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, February =
7, 2015 4:01:29 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0AThat's true up to=
a point. =C2=A0Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. =C2=
=A0I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a majo=
r network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. =C2=A0W=
hen you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should kno=
w the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. =C2=A0If they say =
for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I exp=
ect.=0A=0AThat is pretty basic.=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal =
Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AMore power to you ....=C2=A0=
=0A=0AI always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... "Compared Fiber=
Store to another Vendor"... =C2=A0=0A=0AIt was pointed out to me long time=
ago.... when someone said.. "My Chevy is better than a Ford"....=0ASomeon=
e pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? =C2=A0the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? a=
nd Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ?=0A=0A=0AEvery mfg. has a lots and lo=
ts of products, and they are always getting improved...=0A=0AOne has to pa=
y attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times=
don't have the same specs !=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet =
& Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiami, FL 33155=0ATel: 305 663 5518 x 232=0A=
=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net =0A=
=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ATo: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai=
sal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>,=
"NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM=0A=
Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0AThat's why I engage the engineering re=
sources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the us=
e case. =C2=A0I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore ge=
ar is inferior. =C2=A0Excessive loss on the mux and optics.=C2=A0=0A=0AOn =
Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=
=0A=0AIf you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, inse=
rtion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then=
using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices d=
o not meet specified specs.=0A=0AIf you don't do your homework, cals on th=
e design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not mat=
ter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way=
.=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet & Telecom=0A=0A----- Origin=
al Message -----=0AFrom: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>=0ATo=
: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ACc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0A=
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM ge=
ar=0AWhat others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have thi=
s=0Apassive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your mult=
iplex=0Asolution... Is a active solution...=0AWe import this from fibersto=
re, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G=0Asfp+ cwdm and this mux/de=
mux...=0AEnviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF=0AGrupo Connectoway=0A> Em 07/02/201=
5, =C3=A0s 16:04, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> escreveu:=0A>=0A> H=
i Enviado,=0A>=0A> I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience=
with them. I=0A> needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10=
km optics, I saw=0A> a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted in=
to the path which=0A> created a total loss of over -20db which is outside =
of the tolerances for=0A> our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vend=
ors low insertion loss=0A> mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are u=
sing an 80km optic, you=0A> may be able to tolerate a higher insertion los=
s to cover < 60km. I also=0A> notice that their CDWM optics averaged about=
3db less in power output when=0A> compared to other vendors.=0A>=0A> Than=
ks=0A>=0A> Kenneth=0A>=0A>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom=
<rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>=0A>> wrote:=0A>>=0A>=0A>> Hi kenneth... which t=
he distance do you have from side A to side B when=0A>> you using passive =
solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)?=0A>> I buy this mux and demux(4=
channels single fiber) and only make a test=0A>> about 60km( mux side A a=
nd demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... (=0A>> only see ddm on my ex=
3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with=0A>> ssh and pinging =
tests...=0A>> What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km=
is this=0A>> solution good?=0A>> Thanks!!!=0A>>=0A>> Enviado via iPhone =EF=
=A3=BF=0A>> Grupo Connectoway=0A>>=0A>>> Em 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 14:55, Ken=
neth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> escreveu:=0A>>> Mike,=0A>>> I just repla=
ced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware=0A>>> equipm=
ent. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive=0A>>> loss, =
poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without=0A>>> threatening =
legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI=0A>>> equipment =
so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels).=0A>>> On Feb 07, 2=
015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Mar=C3=ADn <mmg@transtelco.net> wrote:=0A>>> Hi M=
ike=0A>>> I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective=0A=
>>> solutions.=0A>>> Ekinops & Packetlight.=0A>>> On Saturday, February 7,=
2015, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:=0A>>> I know there are vario=
us Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500)=0A>>> muxes=0A>>> to throw =
16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't=0A>>> work=0A=
>>> so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefor=
e=0A>>> must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of cha=
nnels=0A>>> and=0A>>> have a distance limitation.=0A>>> What solutions are=
out there that don't cost an arm and a leg?=0A>>> -----=0A>>> Mike Hammet=
t=0A>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions=0A>>> http://www.ics-il.com=0A>>> =
--=0A>>> TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232*=
| MX:=0A>>> *+52=0A>>> 656-257-1109*=0A>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This c=
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