[177898] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Low cost WDM gear
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kenneth McRae)
Sat Feb 7 16:35:56 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
To: Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net>
From: Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 21:28:41 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
All the more reason to bring in engineering with accurate data when engagi=
ng with customers. =C2=A0I kinda figured that FiberStore was a broker when=
I was told that all technical support issues had to be directed through t=
he sale rep.=C2=A0=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 01:26 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisa=
l@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0ABTW, I hope you realize that FiberStore i=
s not a mfg. but a "Seller/broker". =C2=A0they have to rely on the specs p=
rovided to them from the MFG.=C2=A0=0A=0AIn the Far East, mfg, distributio=
n, sales is organized is a slightly different manner than the West.=0A=0A:=
)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMia=
mi, FL 33155=0ATel: 305 663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Optio=
n 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net =0A=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenne=
th.mcrae@me.com>=0ATo: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "R=
odrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASe=
nt: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=
=0A=0AThat's true up to a point. =C2=A0Specs are only as good as the entit=
y providing the data. =C2=A0I can tell you a few stories about specs and s=
ome MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet =
advertised specs. =C2=A0When you engage the engineering folks to assist in=
a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone=
else. =C2=A0If they say for a certain distance that A+B will work, then t=
hat is exactly what I expect.=0A=0AThat is pretty basic.=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2=
015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AMor=
e power to you ....=C2=A0=0A=0AI always get a chuckle out of statements su=
ch as ... "Compared FiberStore to another Vendor"... =C2=A0=0A=0AIt was po=
inted out to me long time ago.... when someone said.. "My Chevy is better =
than a Ford"....=0ASomeone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? =C2=A0the Cheve=
tte ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ?=0A=0A=0AEve=
ry mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting impro=
ved...=0A=0AOne has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model pr=
oducts at different times don't have the same specs !=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal =
Imtiaz=0ASnappy Internet & Telecom=0A7266 SW 48 Street=0AMiami, FL 33155=0A=
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232=0A=0AHelp-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: S=
upport@Snappytelecom.net =0A=0AFrom: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com=
>=0ATo: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net>=0ACc: "Rodrigo 1telecom=
" <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, F=
ebruary 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM=0ASubject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0A=0AThat's wh=
y I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen =
candidate will support the use case. =C2=A0I have now performed an A/B com=
parison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. =C2=A0Excessive loss on the m=
ux and optics.=C2=A0=0A=0AOn Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai=
sal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:=0A=0AIf you pay close attention to the Spec =
Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper ca=
lculation for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active w=
ill work unless the devices do not meet specified specs.=0A=0AIf you don't=
do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on w=
hatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are very very likely=
to be surprised in a bad way.=0A=0A:)=0A=0AFaisal Imtiaz=0ASnappy Interne=
t & Telecom=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <=
rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>=0ATo: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae@me.com>=0ACc=
: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>=0ASent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM=0A=
Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear=0AWhat others vendors do you using? Here in=
Brazil only PADTEC have this=0Apassive solution... Some days ago Digitel =
contact me to show your multiplex=0Asolution... Is a active solution...=0A=
We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G=
=0Asfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux...=0AEnviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF=0AGrupo =
Connectoway=0A> Em 07/02/2015, =C3=A0s 16:04, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae=
@me.com> escreveu:=0A>=0A> Hi Enviado,=0A>=0A> I cannot recommend FiberSto=
re as I had a bad experience with them. I=0A> needed to cover only 3km fro=
m A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw=0A> a loss of over 5db with t=
heir passive mux inserted into the path which=0A> created a total loss of =
over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for=0A> our equipment with 1=
0km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss=0A> mux corrected our i=
ssue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you=0A> may be able to tol=
erate a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km. I also=0A> notice that thei=
r CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when=0A> compared to=
other vendors.=0A>=0A> Thanks=0A>=0A> Kenneth=0A>=0A>> On Feb 07, 2015, a=
t 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <rodrigo@1telecom.com.br>=0A>> wrote:=0A>>=0A=
>=0A>> Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B =
when=0A>> you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)?=0A>=
> I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test=0A=
>> about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... (=
=0A>> only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access=
with=0A>> ssh and pinging tests...=0A>> What kind os issue do you have? F=
or distances less than 60km is this=0A>> solution good?=0A>> Thanks!!!=0A>=
>=0A>> Enviado via iPhone =EF=A3=BF=0A>> Grupo Connectoway=0A>>=0A>>> Em 0=
7/02/2015, =C3=A0s 14:55, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae@me.com> escreveu:=0A=
>>> Mike,=0A>>> I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes wi=
th OSI Hardware=0A>>> equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappoint=
ment (excessive=0A>>> loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refun=
d without=0A>>> threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results f=
rom the OSI=0A>>> equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 c=
hannels).=0A>>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Mar=C3=ADn <mmg@trans=
telco.net> wrote:=0A>>> Hi Mike=0A>>> I can recommend a couple of vendors =
that provide cost effective=0A>>> solutions.=0A>>> Ekinops & Packetlight.=0A=
>>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:=0A=
>>> I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500)=0A=
>>> muxes=0A>>> to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However,=
they don't=0A>>> work=0A>>> so well when you don't control the optics use=
d on both sides (therefore=0A>>> must use standard wavelengths), obviously=
only do a handful of channels=0A>>> and=0A>>> have a distance limitation.=
=0A>>> What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg?=0A>>=
> -----=0A>>> Mike Hammett=0A>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions=0A>>> htt=
p://www.ics-il.com=0A>>> --=0A>>> TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineerin=
g | US: *+1 915-217-2232* | MX:=0A>>> *+52=0A>>> 656-257-1109*=0A>>> CONFI=
DENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for the use=0A>>> o=
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information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure=0A=
>>> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this=0A=
>>> information, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distributio=
n,=0A>>> or=0A>>> copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.=0A>=
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