[173142] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Inevitable death, was Re: Verizon Public Policy on Netflix
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Thu Jul 17 07:40:17 2014
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <201407150421.WAA26665@mail.lariat.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 04:37:46 -0700
To: Brett Glass <nanog@brettglass.com>
Cc: North American Network Operators' Group <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
On Jul 14, 2014, at 21:21 , Brett Glass <nanog@brettglass.com> wrote:
> Mike:
>=20
> An ASN is, literally, just a number. One that's used by a very awkward =
and primitive routing system that requires constant babysitting and =
tweaking and, after lo these many years, still doesn't deliver the =
security or robustness it should. Obtaining this token number (and a =
bunch of IP addresses which is no different, qualitatively, from what I =
already have) would be a large expense that would not produce any =
additional value for my customers but could force me to raise their fees =
-- something which I absolutely do not want to do.
Interesting... I, and many of my customers, have ASNs and are running =
BGP and haven't had to tweak or babysit it for years. It just cruises =
along doing the right thing.
Generally, we only have to modify it when we add/move/change a peering =
and/or transit relationship.
> Perhaps it's best to think of it this way: I'm outsourcing some =
backbone routing functions to my upstreams, which (generously) aren't =
charging me anything extra to do it. In my opinion, that's a good =
business move.
That's fine, and from the rest of the world's perspective, your network =
is just another part of their network. You are invisible and irrelevant.
> As for "peering:" the definition is pretty well established. ISPs do =
it; content providers at the edge do not.
I disagree. Many content and eyeball networks engage in a variety of =
forms of peering in various situations and for various reasons. The =
definition of "peering" is an exterior gateway protocol adjacency formed =
between two routers in different autonomous systems. (note, I use the =
term exterior gateway protocol in the generic sense, where BGP is the =
most prominent example du jour, not to specifically refer to the now =
antiquated EGP of days gone by).
> Netflix is fighting a war of semantics and politics with ISPs. It is =
trying to cling to every least penny it receives and spend none of it on =
the resources it consumes or on making its delivery of content more =
efficient. We have been in conversations with it in which we've asked =
only for it to be equitable and pay us the same amount per customer as =
it pays other ISPs, such as Comcast (since, after all, they should be =
just as valuable to it). It has refused to do even that much. That's why =
talks have, for the moment, broken down and we are looking at other =
solutions.
Nope... Netflix is trying to help their customers and make it as easy as =
they reasonably can for the eyeball networks that serve those customers.
Some less than scrupulous eyeball networks seem to be fighting a war to =
try and extort Netflix to subsidize their operations, and you have thus =
placed yourself in some interesting and dubious company by attempting to =
carry out a similar attempt at extortion. Perhaps you are emboldened by =
the success of one or more of these very large eyeball networks into =
thinking that this is how the world should operate. Perhaps something =
else drives your beliefs.
Either way, I suspect that if your entire subscriber base disappeared =
from Netflix' customer roles, they would barely notice, if at all. OTOH, =
I suspect you get fairly regular complaints from your customers because =
you don't provide adequate bandwidth to enough of the internet to =
include reliable functional access to Netflix as part of your product =
line.
Regardless of what you say in the fine print, your customers are =
expecting that they are buying access to the entire internet, including =
Netflix. They're asking for those packets from Netflix and once Netflix =
gets them to the front door of one or more of the ASNs advertising your =
customer's network numbers, Netflix has done their job. =46rom there, =
your customers have paid you to take those bits and deliver them. Your =
failure to do so is just that... Your failure. Trying to get Netflix to =
help compensate you for a business model that doesn't provide sufficient =
revenue to correct the situation is absurd at best.
Owen
