[160697] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Stephen Sprunk)
Mon Feb 11 16:11:23 2013
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:10:48 -0600
From: Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
To: nanog@nanog.org
In-Reply-To: <30393215.5773.1360610021862.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
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On 11-Feb-13 13:13, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> From: "Stephen Sprunk" <stephen@sprunk.org>
>> Sure, almost nobody asks for dark fiber today because they know it cos=
ts several orders of magnitude more than a T1 or whatever. However, if th=
e price for dark fiber were the same (or lower), latent demand would mate=
rialize. Why would I pay through the nose for a T1 when I can light the f=
iber myself with 10GE for $20/mo?
> This was part of my argument, yes.
> h
> And it even occurred to me over the weekend that this will reduce the e=
ngineering charges to get me onto the already-built backbone loops:
>
> They don't need to build to my *CO*, just to a splice at the edge of my=
city, and *I* can backhaul the uplinks in myself.
Good point. I missed that since I was applying the same general model
to the (suburban) municipality where I live, which already has no
shortage of fiber _to the CO_. In the rural case originally described,
reducing the "middle mile" problem helps too.
>> What you're missing is that in this model, _every_ connection is L1 fr=
om the fiber owner's perspective. Let service providers worry about L2 an=
d above.
> In fairness to Scott, he didn't *miss* it, he simply has his "feasible"=
slider set to a different place than I/we do.
I disagree; he is obsessing over how to reduce the amount of fiber,
which is a tiny fraction of the total cost, and that leads him to invite
all sorts of L2 problems into the picture that, for a purely L1
provider, simply would not apply.
>> Why would the ISP "have to build and maintain a lot of
>> infrastructure"? All they need is a fiber-capable Ethernet switch in =
a colo to turn up their first customer. That's a lot simpler than trying =
to turn up their first customer via an ILEC's DSLAM, for instance.
> Well, that means *they have to build out in my city*; I can't aggregate=
L1 and backhaul it to them.
As the saying goes, you "must be present to win." If there's _any_
fiber available to the CO, there shouldn't be much trouble getting an
ISP to show up when they have ridiculously cheap access to your customer
base.
>> There's nothing wrong with the muni operating a L2 (or even L3) carri=
er of last resort, just to ensure that _some_ useful service is available=
to residents. However, it should (a) be priced high enough to attract co=
mpetitors and (b) be a distinct entity, treated by the fiber arm as no di=
fferent from any other L1 customer. None of the shenanigans like the ILEC=
s play, where the wholesale rate to competitors is higher than the retail=
rate for the ILEC's own service.
> That's true at L3, but at L2, my goal is to encourage *much smaller* IS=
Ps (like the one I used to engineer in 1996, Centurion Technologies; we w=
ere profitable with about 400 dialup customers into a 40 and a 20 modem d=
ialup bank backhauled by 512kb/s *and I would come to your house and make=
it work if I had to*. :-).
>
> By having the city run L2 over our L1, we can accomplish that; unlike L=
3, I don't believe it actually needs to be a separate company; I expect m=
ost ISP business to be at L2; L1 is mostly an accomodation to potential l=
arger ISPs who want to do it all themselves.
>
> Or FiOS. :-)
We have a philosophical disagreement here. I fully support public
ownership of public ownership of "natural" monopolies, and the fiber
plant itself (L1) certainly qualifies.
However, running L2 (or L3) over that fiber is _not_ a natural monopoly,
so I do _not_ support public ownership. At most, I could stomach a
"provider of last resort" to guarantee resident access to useful
services, in the IMHO unlikely event that only one (or zero) private
players showed up, or a compelling need to provide some residents (eg.
the elderly or indigent, schools, other public agencies, etc.) with
below-cost services.
>> (Note that inside wiring is a completely separate issue, and carriers =
_will_ have to train techs on how to do that since few are familiar with =
fiber, but that is an optional service they can charge extra for. The L1 =
provider's responsibility ends at the NIU on an outside wall, same as an =
ILEC's, so it's not their problem in the first place.)
> The L2 might end there, too, if I decide on outside ONTs, rather than a=
n optical jackblock inside.
I think the ILECs got this part right: provide a passive NIU on the
outside wall, which forms a natural demarc that the fiber owner can test
to. If an L2 operator has active equipment, put it inside--and it would
be part of the customer-purchased (or -leased) equipment when they turn
up service.
S
--=20
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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