[158492] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Naslund, Steve)
Fri Nov 30 17:43:45 2012
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:37:16 -0600
In-Reply-To: <50B93138.3020003@alter3d.ca>
From: "Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund@medline.com>
To: <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
OK, I get it. I think my BS detector is set to high today. I am just
really suspicious that this guy that runs an large ISP can't at least
wait until there are charges before all the uproar. I think if the cops
came and seized my home PCs right now I would probably give them the
time to look at them, realize there is nothing there, and give them back
to me before freaking out completely. I would be wondering what was
going on but probably not raising a defense fund.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alter3d@alter3d.ca]=20
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:21 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
I didn't say anything about trying to run away. That probably won't=20
accomplish a whole lot in the long run. But when all of your bank=20
accounts and credit cards are frozen, and your house is a crime scene,
at least you have the means to rent a hotel room, contact
family/lawyers, etc.
And no, I'm not OK with people keeping any money that was donated for a
specific purpose in excess of what was actually used. You'd hope that
he'd be a good guy about it and give back the portion that wasn't used,
or clearly state that any excess will go to charity or something. =20
However, there's no such guarantee (short of doing it through a trust
fund with his lawyer), and just like any philanthropic venture, it's up=20
to each donor choose when/if they'll help out. It's just like=20
Kickstarter -- you hope to get something good out of it, but if it
bombs, well... you pay your money and you take your chances.
- Pete
On 11/30/2012 05:02 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
> OK, there must be a lot more paranoid people out there than I thought=20
> there were. I personally don't have a "runaway kit" stashed away. I=20
> will get right on that. So when that "mouth breather cop" won't=20
> believe you are innocent, your answer is to grab your stuff and go on=20
> the lamb for awhile? I am sure he will let you out to go to the bank,
> get your stuff, and leave town. I think you have seen way to many
movies.
>
> So if the cops show up at his door tomorrow and say "Here's all your=20
> stuff back, there was no evidence of a crime.", you are OK with this=20
> guys keeping the "defense fund"?
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alter3d@alter3d.ca]
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 3:53 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please=20
> help if you can.
>
>
> On 11/30/2012 04:01 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
>> I am a little concerned that this guy keeps a safe deposit box=20
>> with a burner phone and cash around. Is he a CIA agent? :)
> Anyone who DOESN'T have such things stashed away somewhere is, IMHO,=20
> incredibly naive and taking on quite a large amount of risk.
>
> The likelihood (and hope) is that you'll never need it. But on the=20
> off chance that you get f***ed by the legal system because of some=20
> power hungry, mouth-breather cop who can't/won't understand that=20
> you've done nothing wrong -- or worse, that you're easily provably=20
> within the law, but he "believes" that you're not and drags you=20
> through the process anyways -- you'll be very happy that you stashed=20
> away that old unlocked cell phone, old laptop, change of clothes and
cash.
>
> I'm a (legal) firearms owner... up here in Canada, where some previous
> governments enacted extreme anti-gun legislation, that pretty much=20
> means that if I so much as sneeze in a way that a cop doesn't like, I=20
> can have my life ruined pretty damned fast (not quite, but really=20
> close). I wouldn't bet against me having an=20
> excrement-hitting-the-oscillator stash like this guy does. ;)
>
> (Note: I don't mean to imply that all cops are power hungry
> mouth-breathers intent on destroying the lives of citizens. Most
cops
> are fundamentally good people and do a great job. But like every=20
> other profession, there ARE bad cops out there, and it's within the=20
> realm of possibility that you'll deal with one of them one day.)
>
>> Why would I donate to his legal defense when he has not been charged=20
>> yet? A little premature, no?
>>
> If you think that legal costs in a criminal case only start when
you've
> been formally charged, you're grossly misinformed. At what point you
> personally decide to donate is one thing, but implying that someone=20
> doesn't need a defense fund prior to charges being laid is a bit naive
> about how the process works.
>
> - Pete
>
>
>
