[158396] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Naslund, Steve)
Thu Nov 29 14:10:15 2012
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:06:48 -0600
In-Reply-To: <CCAF8F74-9F47-4E0F-BC97-33F6F11BDC26@ianai.net>
From: "Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund@medline.com>
To: <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
How would this be legally different than receiving the illegal content
in an envelope and anonymously forwarding the envelope via the post
office? I am pretty sure you are still liable since you were the
sender. I realize that there are special postal regulations but I think
that agreeing to forward anything for anyone sight unseen is pretty
risky and I think you will have a hard time pulling of the "service
provider" defense if you are not selling services and are not licensed
as a carrier.
Steven Naslund
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patrick@ianai.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:45 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help
if you can.
On Nov 29, 2012, at 11:17 , Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com> wrote:
> =08Back in the early days of the public internet we didn't require any =
> id to create an account, just that you found a way to pay us. We had=20
> anonymous accts some of whom dropped by personally to pay their bill,=20
> some said hello but I usually didn't know their names and that's how=20
> they wanted it, I'd answer "hello <ACCOUNT>", whatever their login was
> if I recognized them. Some mailed in something, a mail order, even=20
> currency tho that was rare but it did happen, or had someone else drop
> by to pay in cash (that is, no idea if they were local.)
>=20
> LEO occasionally served a warrant for information, usually child porn=20
> biz (more than just accessing child porn, selling it) tho I don't=20
> remember any anonymous accts being involved.
"Mere conduit" defense. (Please do not anyone mention "common carrier
status" or the like, ISPs are _not_ common carriers.)
> I never expected to be held accountable for anyone's behavior unless I
> was knowingly involved somehow (just the usual caveat.) LEO never=20
> showed any particular interest in the fact that we were ok with=20
> anonymous accounts. If I was made aware of illegal activities we'd=20
> shut them off, didn't really happen much, maybe some credible=20
> "hacking" complaint on occasion.
How do you "shut off" a Tor "account"?
> It's funny, it's all illusion like show business. It's not hard to set
> up anonymous service, crap, just drop in at any wi-fi hotspot, many=20
> just ask you to click that you accept their T&Cs and you're on. Would=20
> they raid them, I was just using one at a major hospital this week=20
> that was just like that, if someone used that for child porn etc? But=20
> I guess stick your nose out and say you're specifically offering anon=20
> accts and watch out I guess.
Do you think if the police found out child pr0n was being served from a
starbux they wouldn't confiscate the equipment from that store?
--
TTFN,
patrick
