[156666] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: The Department of Work and Pensions, UK has an entire /8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Stephen Sprunk)
Fri Sep 21 16:22:23 2012
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:21:01 -0500
From: Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
To: George Herbert <george.herbert@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAK__KztSZhQ1rK9PzR+4+TADFmw-ibSmU_+1BAQOir9vTBYesA@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
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On 20-Sep-12 20:51, George Herbert wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
> wrote:
>> Actually, they're not any different, aside from scale. Some
>> private internets have hundreds to thousands of participants, and
>> they often use obscure protocols on obscure systems that were
>> killed off by their vendors (if the vendors even exist anymore) a
>> decade or more ago, and no source code or upgrade path is
>> available.
>>
>> The "enterprise" networking world is just as ugly as, if not
>> uglier than, the consumer one.
>
> I haven't worked much on the commercial private internets, but I did
> work for someone who connected on the back end into numerous telco
> cellphone IP data networks.
>
> For all of those who argue that these applications should use 1918
> space, I give you those networks, where at one point I counted
> literally 8 different 10.200.x/16 nets I could talk to at different
> partners (scarily enough, 2 of those were "the same company"...).
> And hundreds and hundreds of other space conflicts.
That's all? I consulted for one customer that had several (six?=20
eight?) instances of 10/8 within their own enterprise, simply because
they needed that many addresses. That doesn't include the dozens of
legacy /16s they used in their data centers--plus the hundreds of legacy
/24s they used in double-sided NAT configurations between them and
various business partners, COINs, etc.
Yet all that was exposed to the consumer internet was a couple of /24s
for their web servers, email servers and VPN concentrators.
> Yes, you can NAT all of that, but if you get network issues where
> you need to know the phone end address and do end to end debugging
> on stuff, there are no curse words strong enough in the English
> language.
That's the truth. To get from a credit card terminal to the bank
involved _at least_ three layers of NAT on our side, and I don't know
how many layers of NAT there were in total on the bank's side, but it
was at least two.
S
--=20
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
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