[150585] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Programmers with network engineering skills
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Holmes,David A)
Mon Feb 27 20:47:24 2012
From: "Holmes,David A" <dholmes@mwdh2o.com>
To: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>, david raistrick <drais@icantclick.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:46:26 -0800
In-Reply-To: <11B1B530-B75C-4B60-B2A5-2F7B6365D333@delong.com>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
What about the case of the strong coder who decides that networking is more=
interesting as a life's work, moves into networking, will not consider emp=
loyment where coding is even a remote possibility, and will successfully la=
nd another networking job elsewhere if management even brings up the subjec=
t of coding? I think this describes the great majority of networking profes=
sionals.
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 2:14 PM
To: david raistrick
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: Programmers with network engineering skills
On Feb 27, 2012, at 12:31 PM, david raistrick wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2012, Owen DeLong wrote:
>
>> I think you're more likely to find a network engineer with (possibly lim=
ited)
>> programming skills.
>
> While I'll agree about the more likely, if I needed a coder who had a fir=
m grasp of networking I'd rather teach a good coder networking, than try to=
teach the art and magic of good development to a network guy.
>
Well, I won't call myself a hard-core coder, but, I think I have a reasonab=
le grasp on the art and magic of good development. What I mostly lack is sp=
eed and efficiency in the language of choice for whatever project. I can wr=
ite good code, it just takes me longer than it would take a hard-core coder=
.
OTOH, having done both, I would say that I think you are not necessarily co=
rrect about which direction of teaching is harder. Yes, if you start with a=
network engineer that knows nothing about writing code or doesn't understa=
nd the principles of good coding, you're probably right. However, starting =
with a network engineer that can write decent code slowly, I think you will=
get a better result in most cases than if you try to teach network enginee=
ring to a hard-core coder that has only a minimal understanding of networki=
ng.
> I think it really comes down to which you need: a hardcore network engine=
er/architect who can hack up code, or a hardcore developer who has or can o=
btain enough of a grasp of networking fundementals and specifics to build y=
ou the software you need him to develop.
>
I'm guessing that someone who needed a hard-core developer that could grasp=
fundamentals would have grabbed an existing coder and handed him a copy of=
Comer.
The fact that this person posted to NANOG instead implies to me that he nee=
ds someone that has a better grasp than just the fundamentals.
Of course I am speculating about that and I could be wrong.
> The ones who already know both ends extremely well are going to be -very-=
hard to find, but finding one who can learn enough of the other to accompl=
ish what you need shouldn't be hard at all.
>
Depends on what you need. However, I think it's faster to go from limited c=
oding skills with a good basis in the fundamentals to usable development th=
an to go from limited networking skills to a firm grasp on how networks beh=
ave in the real world. To the best of my knowledge, nothing but experience =
will teach you the latter. Even with 20+ years experience networks do still=
occasionally manage to surprise me.
> ...d (who is not exactly the former though I've played one for TV, and no=
t at all the later)
I am admittedly lost given the three choices as to which constitutes former=
or latter at this point.
1. Strong coder with limited networking
2. Strong networker with limited coding
3. Strong in both
Owen
Who is a strong network engineer
Who has been a professional software engineer (though many years ago and my=
skills are rusty
and out of date)
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