[145237] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: facebook spying on us?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (John van Oppen)
Sat Oct 1 11:25:31 2011
From: John van Oppen <jvanoppen@spectrumnet.us>
To: Joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, "Steven G. Huter" <sghuter@nsrc.org>
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 15:24:31 +0000
In-Reply-To: <4E864752.2030105@bogus.com>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
That comment about wholesale prices is not actually quite true here in the =
northwest where avoiding BPA actually sometimes results in cheaper power (i=
e grant, douglas and chelan counties whoes PUDs own their own dams and are =
obligated to service their customer and as non-profits actually sell to ret=
ail users at near the wholesale grid rates since they have nearly zero cost=
).=0A=
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Because pacificorp is a private utility they are actually only able to get =
the leftovers of the hydro from the northwest, BPA must sell to public util=
ities first (even if it is LA) so there are effectively two prices here in =
the northwest for wholesale and that is why pacificorp, portland general an=
d puget sound energy all have far far higher rates than the public utilitie=
s, even the public utilities with no generation of their own.=0A=
=0A=
I was pretty surprised about facebook's choice as well, almost an identical=
climate can be found along the columbia river in the same places that the =
very cheapest power is located. They must have some other factors than ju=
st weather significantly contribute to the costs to justify not going for t=
he cheapest power.=0A=
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John=0A=
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________________________________________=0A=
From: Joel jaeggli [joelja@bogus.com]=0A=
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 3:48 PM=0A=
To: Steven G. Huter=0A=
Cc: nanog@nanog.org=0A=
Subject: Re: facebook spying on us?=0A=
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On 9/30/11 15:19 , Steven G. Huter wrote:=0A=
>>> I can't tell you the kind of servers, but I can say that I was=0A=
>>> recently in Prineville, OR, where FB is building a data center (and a=
=0A=
>>> second data center). I was used to the ol data centers - you know,=0A=
>>> where there's raised floors, cabinets, cool air, a guard and a few=0A=
>>> guys around with some screens?=0A=
>>>=0A=
>>> But this was massive. I was amazed at the size - a few city blocks=0A=
>>> long and a city block wide, with a transformer and power line the=0A=
>>> size of a small city. I wonder if the Feds were involved.=0A=
>>=0A=
>> the bonneville power administration.=0A=
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> hey joelja=0A=
>=0A=
> this August 2011 article in the Economist outlines some relevant info=0A=
> about the prineville, oregon FB datacenter.=0A=
>=0A=
> http://www.economist.com/node/21525237=0A=
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ambient cooling is important just like power is important, by sonic.net=0A=
gets ~240days of ambient in santa rosa so it's feasible=0A=
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wholesale market prices a driven by availability from the largest=0A=
producer. so you'll pay market price as benchmarked at the bonnevilla=0A=
transmission yard just as is much of california and az the refence price=0A=
is at palo verde az.=0A=
=0A=
there's only one coal plan in oregon and it's 600MW of generating=0A=
capacity in boardman that's portland general electric.=0A=
=0A=
we've got a 20MW interuptable contract with siliconvalley power=0A=
precisely becuase it's vanishingly close to the wholesale rate compared=0A=
to PGEs pricing structure so if you ever wonder why the DCs are in=0A=
sunnyvale and santa clara but not mountainview, there's a good reason.=0A=
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> steve=0A=
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