[140377] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Yahoo and IPv6
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Tue May 10 14:25:49 2011
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1105101221140.2651@moonbase.nullrouteit.net>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:22:54 -0700
To: Igor Gashinsky <igor@gashinsky.net>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
On May 10, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Igor Gashinsky wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
>=20
> :: On Tue, 10 May 2011 02:17:46 EDT, Igor Gashinsky said:
> ::=20
> :: > The time for finger-pointing is over, period, all we are all =
trying to do=20
> :: > now is figure out how to deal with the present (sucky) situation. =
The=20
> :: > current reality is that for a non-insignificant percentage of =
users when=20
> :: > you enable dual-stack, they are gong to drop off the face of the =
planet.=20
> :: > Now, for *you*, 0.026% may be insignificant (and, standalone, =
that number=20
> :: > is insignificant), but for a global content provider that has =
~700M users,=20
> :: > that's 182 *thousand* users that *you*, *through your actions* =
just took=20
> :: > out.. 182,000 - that is *not* insignificant
> ::=20
> :: At any given instant, there's a *lot* more than 182,000 users who =
are cut off
> :: due to various *IPv4* misconfigurations and issues.
>=20
> Yes, but *these* 182,000 users have perfectly working ipv4 =
connectivity,=20
> and you are asking *me* to break them through *my* actions. Sorry, =
that's=20
> simply too many to break for me, without a damn good reason to do so.
>=20
In other words, Igor can't turn on AAAA records generally until there =
are
182,001 IPv6-only users that are broken from his lack of AAAA records.
Given IP address consumption rates in Asia and the lack of available =
IPv4
resources in Asia, with a traditional growth month to month of nearly
30 million IPv4 addresses consumed, I suspect it will not be long before
the 182,001 broken IPv6 users become relevant.
> Doing that on world ipv6 day, when there is a lot of press, and most =
other=20
> large content players doing the same, *is* a good reason - it may =
actually=20
> has a shot of accomplishing some good, since it may get those users to=20=
> realize that they are broken, and fix their systems, but outside of =
flag=20
> day, if I enabled AAAA by default for all users, all I'm going to do =
is=20
> send those "broken" users to my competitors who chose not to enable =
AAAA=20
> on their sites.=20
>=20
Agreed. I think IPv6 day is a great plan for this very reason. I also =
hope that
a lot of organizations that try things out on IPv6 day will decide that =
the
brokenness that has been so hyped wasn't actually noticeable and then
leave their AAAA records in place. I do not expect Yahoo or Google to
be among them, but, hopefully a lot of other organizations will do so.
> This is why I think automatic, measurement-based =
whitelisting/blacklisting=20
> to minimize the collateral damage of enabling AAAA is going to be=20
> inevitable (with the trigger set to something around 99.99%), and =
about=20
> the only way we see wide-scale IPv6 adoption by content players, =
outside=20
> events like world ipv6 day.
>=20
This will be interesting. Personally, I think it will be more along the =
lines
of when there are more IPv6 only eye-balls with broken IPv4 than there
are IPv4 eye-balls with broken IPv6, AAAA will become the obvious
solution.
In my opinion, this is just a matter of time and will happen much sooner =
than
I think most people anticipate.
Owen
