[131210] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Marshall Eubanks)
Thu Oct 21 13:09:34 2010
From: Marshall Eubanks <tme@americafree.tv>
In-Reply-To: <FD55067F70105D4BBDBE7FC036661C00012C3F0751C9@EXCHANGE.atlasbiz.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:09:21 -0400
To: Ben Butler <ben.butler@c2internet.net>
Cc: NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Ben Butler wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> I can live with running dual stack for a number of years as long as =
IPv4 has a turn off date, much like analogue TV services, thus putting =
onus of
And how would you propose to achieve that ?
Regards
Marshall
=20
> responsibility onto the customer to also have a vested interest in =
migrating from v4 to v6. If there is no end data - then all the service =
providers are going to get stuck running dual stack and providing 4to6 =
and 6to4 gateways to bridge traffic to the pool of established v4 only =
customers. Presumably the evil that is NAT will have to be run on these =
gateways meaning we have to endure yet more decades of many applications =
being undeployable for practical purposes as stun cant fix everything in =
the mish mash of different NAT implementations.
>=20
> The problem is there is no commercial incentive for the v4 customer to =
want to move to v6 and there is no way for the ISP to force them to =
without loosing the customer. However, if the RIRs or IANA turned =
around and said as of xxxx date we are revoking all ipv4 allocations. =
Then we might be able to transition to a v6 only network in some decent =
timeframe without ending up going down the road of a broken dual level =
4/6 half way in between broken internet for the next 25 years.
>=20
> You either cross the bridge and get to the other side, or you tell all =
the people waiting to cross they are too late and tough luck but we have =
run out and you cant join the party, but the last thing we want to do is =
get half way across the bridge and need to straddle both sides of the =
river.
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> My 2c.
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> Ben
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan White [mailto:dwhite@olp.net]=20
> Sent: 21 October 2010 16:30
> To: Ben Butler
> Cc: 'Patrick Giagnocavo'; Owen DeLong; NANOG
> Subject: Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA
>=20
> On 21/10/10 16:07 +0100, Ben Butler wrote:
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> Showing my ignorance here, but this is one of the things I have =
wondered,
>> given that we run both v4 and v6 for a period of time on the =
Internet,
>> presumably at one time or another a particular resource may only be =
able
>> in v4 land, then v4 and v6, then finally v6 only.
>>=20
>> I have never been particularly clear how an end network that exists =
only
>> in v4 or v6 address space is able to access a resource that only =
exists in
>> the other. Is can sort of see some freaking huge NAT box type thing =
that
>> summarizes v6 in a v4 address scope or contains the v4 address range =
at
>> some point inside the v6 address space - but how can a v4 host get to =
a
>> hot in v6 world that sits outside this without going through some =
form of
>> proxy / nat gateway between the two.
>>=20
>> Or are the two simply not inter-communicable?
>=20
> I think that's the $64K question. Do you wait to roll out v6 until you
> start seeing v6-only hosts start popping up? =46rom an accounting and =
cost
> recovery stand point, that probably makes sense in some environments.
>=20
> However, consider the fact that there will be v6 only hosts popping up
> after IANA/RIR/ISP exhaustion. There will be new entrants in the =
public
> internet space that cannot obtain v4 addresses and will be reachable =
via v6
> only. That date is starting to become a bit more predictable too. =
Those v6
> only sites won't be Google or Yahoo, but they will be entrepreneurs =
with
> good ideas and new services that your customers will be asking to get
> access to.
>=20
> We're pursuing a dual stacking model today because we anticipate that
> the dual-stacking process itself will take a while to deploy, and we =
want
> to anticipate customer demand for access to v6 only sites. We could =
hold
> off on that deployment, and then spend money on work at the moment of
> truth, but that approach is not very appealing to us.
>=20
> --=20
> Dan White
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
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> Ben Butler
> Director Tel: 0333 666 3332=20
> Fax: 0333 666 3331
> C2 Business Networking Ltd
> The Paddock, London Road, Nantwich, Cheshire, CW5 7JL
> http://www.c2internet.net/
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