[490] in Discussion of MIT-community interests
Re: in defense of affirmative action
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Samuel Coradetti)
Thu May 3 13:37:45 2001
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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:34:35 -0400
To: mit-talk@MIT.EDU
From: Samuel Coradetti <scorad@MIT.EDU>
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>
>As an Irish/Italian/etc. myself, I have to say that's a lovely, but
>provably wrong, argument. If this were true, then blacks would be
>extremely prosperous, since they've been in this country (and even
>free) since long before the immigrations you refer. Clearly a couple
>hundred years of slavery have set them back. If anything, the current
>lot of blacks in America shows that they need continued support.
>
So are you saying that the Irish and Italians didn't come here with
nothing, and didn't face extreme prejudice? You'd better pick up a
history book dude. If you compare the Irish in the early 1800s and
the Italians in the late 1800s to Americans with dark skin in the
middle of this century, their positions are fairly comprable. They
were all considered sub-human garbage by the affluent classes, and
most of them were dirt poor. They were all exploited as the cheap
labor, but the Irish/Italian immigrants had it much worse because
there were fewer labor laws and the US government routinely helped
factory owners crack down on strikes (usually violently), regardless
of how bad the working conditions were.
Now the descendants of those Irish and Italian immigrants are as well
off as any group in America today. In fact, they have become so
accepted that they along with everyone else in this country who had
European ancestors are simply referred to as "white". I'm starting
to get the impression that some of you think this has always been the
case. There have been times and places in America where if you were
white skinned but from a certain part of Europe, you were as bad off
or even worse off than a some one who had black skin. Racism isn't
about skin pigmentation, it's about identifying your self based on
your ancestors and making judgements about others based on theirs.
They didn't get there by demanding government programs to redress
past wrongs, or by teaching their children that they are victims and
that living in America is some sort of burden. They got there by
working hard and slowly eroding away the irrational hate that
surrounded them. You might even say that they had to "again and
again prove their worth" to those who would irrationally judge them.
The Irish in particular had a rough road to equality. After
struggling for years in dirty slums and in the psuedo-slavery of the
early industrial revolution, they fought and died for the union in
disproportionally high numbers during the civil war. That's a pretty
high price to pay for a country that treats you like dirt. This is
the way it has been for every new cultural group that comes to
America, and I fear it will continue in this manner as long as a
large number of us identify ourselves so strongly with the group of
people we happen to share the most DNA with instead of the group we
share the most ideas and interests with. I'm not saying this is how
it should be, not by a long shot, I just think some people need a
little perspective here.
-Sam
p.s. Rich- are you really and Irish/Italian/etc., or are you an
American? My ancestors Immigrated from Italy, Ireland, and England,
but I am American. If you identify yourself so strongly with Italy
or Ireland, you should go live there.
--
_____________________
Samuel Coradetti
450 Memorial Dr.
Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 225-9329
scorad@mit.edu
