[1332] in java-interest
Re: java-interest-digest V1 #138
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robert Stephen Rodgers)
Wed Aug 30 12:09:36 1995
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:51:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Stephen Rodgers <rsrodger@wam.umd.edu>
To: java-interest@java.sun.com
cc: java-interest-digest@java.sun.com
In-Reply-To: <199508292343.QAA14525@webrunner.neato.org>
All in one bundle of replies to various messages:
> Robert Stephen Rodgers makes some good points about what
> should and shouldn't be priorities in making Java a
> success. One question though: the "Yes" list states
> a need for "Something akin to BoundsChecker or Purify".
> Don't the garbage collection and true array features
> of Java obviate the need for these kinds of utilities?
> My impression is that Java has been designed to produce
> code that doesn't require the kinds of pesticide
> needed to debug C, e.g. memory leaks and rogue pointers.
I'm thinking of the practical reality. Suppose the following:
Java becomes popular on Windows
Users have Java programs that they might like open most of the time
I'm not quite sure how Java interacts with Windows 95, having only run a2 for
NT, but I'm concerned about the following:
On Windows 95, long term resource leaks. These are not pointers! They are
pointer-like (in that somewhere the system has allocated memory to them)
"handles." Windows 95, in case anyone missed it, still carries some of the
extremely bone-headed resource problems that afflicted prior Windows versions.
Creating a permanent resource drain is a bad thing if Java is to succeed.
On Windows NT and Windows 95, I want to be able to examine the program and
make sure that all files are being opened and closed _by the program_ and
not at termination and so on. Among other things, this lets you be sure
that you're not sitting around tieing up a user's files because of a coding
oversight. (Yes, this falls under sloppy-code-prevention.)
Oh, I forgot one on my previous list: Code profiler
[...]
Someone else in another message about Netscape:
> part is that they are single handedly defining the HTML standard.
> Last I checked HTML 3.0 didn't exist outside of the minds of
> Net(e)scapers.
A *lot* of PC browsers support HTML3, including Mosaic (well...) and
Microsoft's Internet Explorer. The latter is the first program that
I've found with a genuinely better interface -- it works the way the
web should, just shift-click and open a dozen windows at once. Very
useful over a 14k link -- open 20 or 30 windows in 30 seconds, come back
in 5 minutes and they're all finished.
All things considered, though, most web browsers are the same. To those
who really think HotJava has to be something more than a demonstration
vehicle and reference design for the makers of Netscape and Spry and Mosaic
and Quarterdeck Mosaic and so on -- what exactly would unseating Netscape
actually accomplish?
What's in it for Java?
What is the _goal_?
If you think the Web is going to have to undergo some major changes before
things settle down (HTML3 is just a start), and I do, the "browser wars"
are a pointless venue. If Java leaves the web and establishes itself as
a real programming language, it will be trivial to take the web back.
The opposite approach, being established on the web, well, just isn't going
to help that much in establishing Java as a real programming language.
(Real == "accepted", vs "experimental" == "toy")
[...]
RSR
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