[99046] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] emphasizing noun suffixes
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Wed Jun 25 09:41:45 2014
In-Reply-To: <53AACA7B.4040404@trimboli.name>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:41:31 +0200
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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But then you are saying that nouns would work differently from verbs in
Klingon. We know that in Klingon verbs the suffixes do not necessarily
describe "everything to the left of it", {-nIS} goes to slot 2 and means
'need to', {-laH} goes to slot 5 and means 'be able to', but {jIlaDnISlaH}
can still mean 'I need to be able to read' and not (necessarily) 'I am able
to need to read', which is a possible interpretation, but simply doesn't
make much sense, semantically. So in verbs, suffixes mainly refer back to
the verb in general. Rovers are an exception, their scopus is on whatever
comes left to them.
I don't see a reason why nouns should work differently in Klingon.
{jaghpu'na'} means that the concept ENEMY is modified to mean plurality and
definiteness. So it's more than one enemy, and they're definite. The {-na'}
could refer to the enemy-ness alone. So {jaghpu'na'} can mean specifiy that
it's definitely sure that we're talking about someone hostile, but it might
not be as sure that it's many of them. {jaghpu'na'} only confirms with
certainty that it's enemies, not necessarily that they are many.
In short: It's not true that non-rover suffixes say something about all
that comes before them.
I was going to say that all non-rover suffixes refer just back to the
original verb or noun stem, but that might not be true either.
- Andr=C3=A9
2014-06-25 15:11 GMT+02:00 SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>:
> On 6/25/2014 5:39 AM, Lieven wrote:
>
>> The word {jaghpu'na'} could mean "definitely enemies" (that is, there's
>> no question that those people you're talking about are enemies and not
>> friends or neutral parties or whatever), but, in the proper context, it
>> could also mean "definitely (several or a lot of) enemies," focusing on
>> the group or plurality.
>>
>
> {-na'} is a confirmation that everything to the left of it accurately
> describes the thing. This includes any plural suffix. {jaghpu'na'} "the
> word {jaghpu'} is definitely the correct word for this concept" confirms
> that the {-pu'} belongs. In cases where there's no need to confirm that
> {jagh} is the right noun, but where the difference between {wa' jagh} and
> {jaghpu'} is in question, {jaghpu'na'} will obviously have the effect of
> confirming the questionable {-pu'} part.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://www.trimboli.name/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>But then you are saying that noun=
s would work differently from verbs in Klingon. We know that in Klingon ver=
bs the suffixes do not necessarily describe "everything to the left of=
it", {-nIS} goes to slot 2 and means 'need to', {-laH} goes t=
o slot 5 and means 'be able to', but {jIlaDnISlaH} can still mean &=
#39;I need to be able to read' and not (necessarily) 'I am able to =
need to read', which is a possible interpretation, but simply doesn'=
;t make much sense, semantically. So in verbs, suffixes mainly refer back t=
o the verb in general. Rovers are an exception, their scopus is on whatever=
comes left to them.<br>
<br></div>I don't see a reason why nouns should work differently in Kli=
ngon. {jaghpu'na'} means that the concept ENEMY is modified to mean=
plurality and definiteness. So it's more than one enemy, and they'=
re definite. The {-na'} could refer to the enemy-ness alone. So {jaghpu=
'na'} can mean specifiy that it's definitely sure that we'r=
e talking about someone hostile, but it might not be as sure that it's =
many of them. {jaghpu'na'} only confirms with certainty that it'=
;s enemies, not necessarily that they are many.<br>
<br></div>In short: It's not true that non-rover suffixes say something=
about all that comes before them.<br></div><br></div>I was going to say th=
at all non-rover suffixes refer just back to the original verb or noun stem=
, but that might not be true either.<br>
<br></div>- Andr=C3=A9<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote">2014-06-25 15:11 GMT+02:00 SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><=
<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.n=
ame</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 6/25/2014 5:39 AM, Lieven wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The word {jaghpu'na'} could mean "definitely enemies" (th=
at is, there's<br>
no question that those people you're talking about are enemies and not<=
br>
friends or neutral parties or whatever), but, in the proper context, it<br>
could also mean "definitely (several or a lot of) enemies," focus=
ing on<br>
the group or plurality.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
{-na'} is a confirmation that everything to the left of it accurately d=
escribes the thing. This includes any plural suffix. {jaghpu'na'} &=
quot;the word {jaghpu'} is definitely the correct word for this concept=
" confirms that the {-pu'} belongs. In cases where there's no =
need to confirm that {jagh} is the right noun, but where the difference bet=
ween {wa' jagh} and {jaghpu'} is in question, {jaghpu'na'} =
will obviously have the effect of confirming the questionable {-pu'} pa=
rt.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.trimboli=
.name/</a><br>
<br>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
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