[98899] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] 'arDaq
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com)
Tue Jun 17 17:01:23 2014
From: lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 17:00:56 -0400
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <8D15880397B2F27-206C-C98B@webmail-vm008.sysops.aol.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
--===============1333399899294131940==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5C5AF433-2FB1-40A1-AD01-40A948B9EF71"
--Apple-Mail=_5C5AF433-2FB1-40A1-AD01-40A948B9EF71
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
The point that has been made that you seem to have missed is that =
*{'arDIch} is apparently not a word.
It's logical that it would be a word, since {'arlogh} is a word, and =
since {'ar} is the question word replaced by a number, and {-logh} is a =
number suffix, that since {-DIch} is a number suffix, you could put it =
on {'ar}, too, but that's an assumption that has not been backed up by =
either use in canon or grammatical discussion or description by Marc =
Okrand.
So, the word *{'arDIch} is not a word, and discussing it further is =
futile.
The only use of {-DIch} that is valid is applying it to a number to be =
functionally equivalent of what happens in English when you add "th" to =
"5" to make "5th".
On Jun 17, 2014, at 4:16 PM, Brad Wilson <bmacliam@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>
> If I ask, "Which door do you choose?", it's still simple {lojmIt =
'arDIch DawIv?}=20
> You answer "I choose the third door." {lojmIt wejDIch vIwIv.}
> <<<=20
> If {'arDIch} really means "which" in the sense of "one of a choice of =
options", then I could answer with {lojmItvatlh vIwIv} (pointing to my =
selection) or {lojmIt SuD vIwIv} and not use {-DIch} at all.
> The question I was asking earlier:
> >>>
> Is there are requirement that if the question uses {'arDIch} that the =
answer must use {number-DIch}?
> It would seem that {-DIch} is a "sequential" marker that identifies =
its headword=20
> either by appearance to the speaker, or importance, or by some other =
criterion.
> <<<
> All uses of {-DIch} that I'm aware of seem to be that of =
"ordinalizing" a number, i.e. ordering either in space or time.
> In English, the word "which" can have an ordinal sense to it:
> ... "the position in a sequence of doors in front of me" or "the =
appearance of doors over time (say, walking down a hall)".
> But "which" can also mean "a choice from a selection without regard to =
order".
> My question is, without further clarification from MO, can we say that =
{'arDIch} also has this broader meaning of "one of a choice, order =
notwithstanding"?
> gheyIl
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--Apple-Mail=_5C5AF433-2FB1-40A1-AD01-40A948B9EF71
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=us-ascii
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div>The point that has been made that you seem to =
have missed is that *{'arDIch} is apparently not a =
word.</div><div><br></div><div>It's logical that it would be a word, =
since {'arlogh} is a word, and since {'ar} is the question word replaced =
by a number, and {-logh} is a number suffix, that since {-DIch} is a =
number suffix, you could put it on {'ar}, too, but that's an assumption =
that has not been backed up by either use in canon or grammatical =
discussion or description by Marc Okrand.</div><div><br></div><div>So, =
the word *{'arDIch} is not a word, and discussing it further is =
futile.</div><div><br></div><div>The only use of {-DIch} that is valid =
is applying it to a number to be functionally equivalent of what happens =
in English when you add "th" to "5" to make "5th".</div><br><div><div>On =
Jun 17, 2014, at 4:16 PM, Brad Wilson <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bmacliam@aol.com">bmacliam@aol.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"arial">
<div style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"><font size=3D"2"><pre =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 9pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
arial;">>>></span></pre><pre style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica; font-size: 9pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
arial;">If I ask, "Which door do you choose?", it's still simple {lojmIt =
'arDIch DawIv?} </span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt><font =
face=3D"arial, helvetica">You answer "I choose the third door." {lojmIt =
wejDIch vIwIv.}</font></tt></pre>
<div style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_0_f091bd8c-ff00-4d85-9e69-48eaeeb786b0" =
style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, =
255);"><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt><span style=3D"font-family: =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
9pt;"><<< </span></tt></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: =
9pt;"><tt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">If =
{'arDIch} really means "which" in the sense of "one of a choice of =
options", then </font></tt><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">I could answer with {lojmItvatlh vIwIv} =
(pointing to my selection) or {lojmIt SuD vIwIv} and not use {-DIch} at =
all.</span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">The =
question I was asking earlier:</span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: =
9pt;"><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 9pt;">>>></span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: =
9pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif;">Is there are requirement that if the question uses =
{'arDIch} that the answer </span><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">must use =
{number-DIch}?</span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt>It would =
seem that {-DIch} is a "sequential" marker that identifies its headword=20=
either by appearance to the speaker, or importance, or by some other =
criterion.</tt></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt><font =
face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><<<</font></tt></pre><pre =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif">All uses of {-DIch} that I'm aware of seem to be that of =
"ordinalizing" a number, i.e. ordering either in space or =
time.</font></tt></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt><font =
face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">In English, the word "which" can =
have an ordinal sense to it:</font></tt></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: =
9pt;"><tt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">... =
</font></tt><span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 9pt;">"the position in a sequence of doors in front of me" or =
"the appearance of doors over time (say, walking down a =
hall)".</span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">But =
"which" can also mean "a choice from a selection without regard to =
order".</span></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt><font =
face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">My question is, without further =
clarification from MO, can we say that {'arDIch} also has this broader =
meaning of "one of a choice, order =
notwithstanding"?</font></tt></pre><pre style=3D"font-size: =
9pt;"><tt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif">gheyIl</font></tt></pre>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_0_f091bd8c-ff00-4d85-9e69-48eaeeb786b0 -->
</div>
</font></div>
</font>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br>http://ma=
il.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br></blockquote></div><br></body>=
</html>=
--Apple-Mail=_5C5AF433-2FB1-40A1-AD01-40A948B9EF71--
--===============1333399899294131940==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============1333399899294131940==--
