[98694] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] -nIS : whose volition?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Thu May 29 21:25:37 2014
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 18:25:19 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Once again I am seeking to satisfy the widest possible range of competent
Klingon speakers with my interpretation of TKD and canon for the beginners'
course.
We know from TKD that type 2 verb suffixes represent the volition of the
subject to perform the action of the verb. We also have the sentence from
Star Trek V: DungDaq legh 'ej QotnIStaH romuluSngan be'pu' = Romulan women
belong on their backs. Clearly in this sentence Korrd is not describing the
actual volition of Romulan women, nor what he believes about what they
personally need, but his own opinion, what they would need to do to satisfy
him, similar to us saying, "That food needs to be in my belly."
I think I say and hear things like this in Klingon all the time. Are we
correct? Is Korrd's line an aberration or regionalism? Would you feel it
correct or incorrect to advise beginners to avoid this usage?
Would you accept the sentence:
jagh mernIS bachlIj.
Clearly the shot itself has no volition, it is the speaker (addressing the
gunner) who has the need.
Discuss.
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<TITLE>-nIS : whose volition?</TITLE>
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<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">Once again I am seeking to satisfy the widest possible range of =
competent Klingon speakers with my interpretation of TKD and canon for =
the beginners’ course</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">We know from TKD that type 2 verb =
suffixes represent the volition of the subject to perform the action of =
the verb.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">We also have the sentence</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">from Star Trek =
V:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">DungDaq legh 'ej QotnIStaH romuluSngan be'pu'</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> =3D Romulan women =
belong on their backs.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">Clearly</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">in this sentence</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Korrd is not =
describing the actual volition of Romulan women,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">nor what he believes =
about what they personally need,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> =
<FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">but his own =
opinion,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New"> what they would need to do to satisfy =
him,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New"> similar to us saying,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">“That food needs to be in my =
belly.”<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I =
think I</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New"> say</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">and hear</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">things like this</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">in =
Klingon</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">all the time. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Are =
we</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">correct? Is Korrd’s line an abe</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">r</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">ration</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">or regionalism? Would you feel =
it</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">correct or</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Courier New">incorrect to advise beginners to avoid =
this</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">usage? </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">Would you accept the sentence:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">jagh mernIS bachlIj.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New"> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">Clearly the shot itself has no volition</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">, it is the speaker =
(addressing the gunner) who has the need.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">Discuss.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
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