[98428] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Multiple verb suffixes
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Apr 15 13:42:25 2014
From: "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 10:42:03 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
> From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
> From: ghunchu'wI' [mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net]
> >
> > Power Klingon's suggested formula for declining an offered liaison:
> > DaH jIbwIj vISay'nISmoH
> > "I must wash my hair now."
>
>
> Rigidly applying the meaning of the suffixes in order yields "I cause my
> hair to need to be clean now," which makes very little sense.
>
> The rules for verb suffixes stated in TKD must give rise to some additional
> grammar governing suffixes. They commonly seem to apply in order, though
> this often doesn't work with Type 2 suffixes, especially combinations like
> -nISmoH and -qangmoH. "Need to cause" and "willing to cause" express clear
> meanings, but "cause to need" and "cause to be willing" make little sense
> as direct action. What grammatical rules can be stated about the action of
> suffixes, in combination with different types of verbs and each other? For
> that matter, which combinations are not allowable? Can {-moH} ever be
> applied to a transitive verb? It may be impractical to state a system rules
> to govern every possible utterance, especially if context plays a role, but
> the other extreme of ad hoc interpretation is imprecise.
I believe the general rule is that each suffix, not counting rovers,
applies to the verb independently, and most ordering issues are a
product of translation.
For instance, in {DaH jIbwIj vISay'nISmoH} the -nIS tells us that the
subject (I) needs to do something and the -moH tells us that the subject
(I) causes something to happen. We have not said that my hair needs to
do something. Don't read a verb with -moH by visualizing the object
jumping between the -moH and the rest of the verb to become a new
subject; it remains an object of the entire verb. I cause it to be
clean. I need to do this.
--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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