[98352] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] Canon and feelings for translating be-verbs with
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sun Apr 6 12:33:28 2014
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 09:33:16 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I know that I write and say sentences like:
law' 'Iw. - Blood is abundant. = There's a lot of blood.
puS Soj. - Food is sparse. = There's not much food.
Sar nuHchaj. - Their weapons are various. = They have a variety of weapons.
(A slightly different matter, but I'd be interested in that, too).
Do we have any canon for the second translation with "there"? Is it just
obvious as a way to make a smooth translation? Or does anyone feel that 'Iw
law' tu'lu' is necessary in order to use that translation. Does anyone
prefer 'Iw law' tu'lu' for that thought and think puS Soj is stilted?
The KLPC syllabus does not include -lu' or adjectival use of stative verbs,
and I am working on the principle of introducing nothing that is not on the
syllabus, while still creating sentences.
The closest I have found so far in canon for the "there" appearing in the
translation to smooth things over is [naDev] qaS wanI' ramqu' - There is
nothing happening [here].
It's the same idea: "verb X" which should strictly be translated as "X
verbs" becomes "There is X verbing."
I don't expect anyone is going to object to such translations, but I have
been twitching for fifteen years every time I see ghopHomDu' translated as
"small hands" in the postal course, so I want to make sure this doesn't irk
anyone.
- Qov
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<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">I know that I =
write and say sentences like</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">:<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">law’ =
‘Iw.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> =
–</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Blood =
is abundant. =3D</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">There’s a lot of blood.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">puS</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Soj.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">–</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> Food</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">is sparse. =3D There’s not much =
food.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Sar nuH</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">chaj</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">. –</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Their w</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">eapo</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">ns</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">are</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">var</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">ious</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">. =3D They have a variety of we</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">pons.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> (A slightly different matter, but =
I’d be interested in th</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">at, too).</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Do we have any =
canon for the second translation with “there”? Is it just =
obvious as a way to</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">make a smooth translation? Or does anyone feel that =
‘Iw law’ tu’lu’ is necessary in order to use =
that translation.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> Does anyone prefer ‘Iw law’ =
tu’lu’ for that thought and think puS Soj is =
stilted?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
<BR>
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">The KLPC syllabus does not =
include</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">–</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">lu</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">or adjectival use of stative verbs,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">and I am working on the principle =
of introducing nothing that is not on the syllabus, while still creating =
sentences.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">The closest I =
have found so far in canon for the “there” appearing in the =
translation</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> to =
smooth things over</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">naDev</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> qaS wanI’ ramqu’ – There is nothing =
happening</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">here</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">It’s the =
same idea</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> “verb X” which should strictly be =
translated as</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">“X verbs” becomes “There is X =
verbing</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">”</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
<BR>
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">I don’t expect anyone is going to object to =
such</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">translations, but I have been twitching for fifteen =
years every time I see ghopHomDu’ translated as “small =
hands” in the postal course, so I want to make sure this =
doesn’t irk anyone.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
<BR>
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">- Qov</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"><BR>
</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-ca"></SPAN></P>
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