[97598] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] the birth of a new word: qorgh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Wed Nov 13 23:09:10 2013
In-Reply-To: <5282927D.4030309@gmx.de>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 23:08:48 -0500
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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The beginning of this exchange got me thinking again about how many
syllables are possible in Klingon phonology:
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> During an interview with Marc Okrand, I overwhelmed him and said: "Okay,
> let's create a new word just now and here, so that people may see how that
> works. You've got thirty seconds."
>
> He immediately started laughing and shook is head, but he was willing to
> play along.
>
> MO: Oh boy! What do we need a word for? Or maybe a verb? ... Verbs are
> generally easier.... If I only have such a short time, I would probably
> just make up a single syllable that hasn't been used yet.
>
Linguists, please excuse me if I inadvertently bend the definition of
phoneme in the process of tallying up the number of possible syllables.
Klingon syllables are formed of four phonemes, in order of position:
I: b,ch,D,gh,H,j,l,m,n,ng,p,q,Q,r,S,t,tlh,v,w,y,' (21 possibilities)
II: a,e,I,o,u (5 possibilities)
III: r,w,y,<null> (4 possibilities)
IV: b,ch,D,gh,H,j,l,m,n,ng,p,q,Q,S,t,tlh,v,',<null> (19 possibilities)
Note that /r/, /w/, and /y/ are not included in IV. Terminal /r/, /w/, and
/y/ are already accounted for in III if IV is <null>, and no Klingon
syllable ends with -wr or -yr. {meyrI'} and {ghawran} are not exceptions to
this rule; they would be syllabified mey-rI' and ghaw-ran.
There would be 21*5*4*19 possibilities, or 7980, except that position IV is
limited if /r/ is in position III. In practice, syllables with /r/ in
position III only have /gh/, /q/, or <null> in position IV (to cite the
latest example, {qorgh}). Also, /ow/ and /uw/ never occur. The bottleneck
is in III: if III is /y/ or <null>, there are 21*5*2*19=3990 possibilities.
If III is /w/, there are 21*3*1*19=1197 possibilities. If III is /r/, there
are 21*5*1*3=315 possibilities. This makes a total of 5502 possible
syllables.
(New vocabulary could increase the number of possible syllables; a glance
at the above list suggests that "barb" could be a Klingon syllable, and
certainly /rQ/ seems possible if /rq/ already occurs. If any phoneme in IV
except /'/ is allowed after /r/ in position III, the total number of
syllables would increase to 7077.)
I'd guess Klingon has around 1500 monosyllabic words, so the ratio of sense
to nonsense syllables is getting small, less than 1:3. But one
error-checking mechanism of a language is that nonsense monosyllables
outnumber their intelligible counterparts (though this is probably not the
case for Hawaiian). I've run across estimates that English has about 9000
monosyllabic words out of over 100000 possible monosyllables. If I say
"cork" at a noisy dinner party, you might hear it as "fork" or "pork," but
you would not expect I said "gork." (Actually, it turns out "gork" is
medical slang for a brain-dead patient.)
So how does this Klingon vocabulary land rush play out?
~'eD
--
My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr">The beginning of this exchange got me thinking again about=
how many syllables are possible in Klingon phonology:<div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:41 PM=
, Lieven <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.de" target=3D=
"_blank">levinius@gmx.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><br>
During an interview with Marc Okrand, I overwhelmed him and said: "Oka=
y, let's create a new word just now and here, so that people may see ho=
w that works. You've got thirty seconds."<br>
<br>
He immediately started laughing and shook is head, but he was willing to pl=
ay along.<br>
<br>
MO: Oh boy! What do we need a word for? Or maybe a verb? ... Verbs are gene=
rally easier.... If I only have such a short time, I would probably just ma=
ke up a single syllable that hasn't been used yet.<span class=3D""><fon=
t color=3D"#888888"><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>Lingu=
ists, please excuse me if I inadvertently bend the definition of phoneme in=
the process of tallying up the number of possible syllables.</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Klingon syl=
lables are formed of four phonemes, in order of position:</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=C2=A0 =C2=A0I: b,ch,=
D,gh,H,j,l,m,n,ng,p,q,Q,r,S,t,tlh,v,w,y,' (21 possibilities)</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">=C2=A0 II: a,e,I,o,u (5 possibilities)<br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">=C2=A0III: r,w,y,<null> (4 possibilities)<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">IV: b,ch,D,gh,H,j,l,m,n,ng,p,q,Q,S,t,tlh,v,=
',<null> (19 possibilities)</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Note that /=
r/, /w/, and /y/ are not included in IV. Terminal /r/, /w/, and /y/ are alr=
eady accounted for in III if IV is <null>, and no Klingon syllable en=
ds with -wr or -yr. {meyrI'} and {ghawran} are not exceptions to this r=
ule; they would be syllabified mey-rI' and ghaw-ran.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">There would=
be 21*5*4*19 possibilities, or 7980, except that position IV is limited if=
/r/ is in position III. In practice, syllables with /r/ in position III on=
ly have /gh/, /q/, or <null> in position IV (to cite the latest examp=
le, {qorgh}). Also, /ow/ and /uw/ never occur. The bottleneck is in III: if=
III is /y/ or <null>, there are 21*5*2*19=3D3990 possibilities. If I=
II is /w/, there are 21*3*1*19=3D1197 possibilities. If III is /r/, there a=
re 21*5*1*3=3D315 possibilities. This makes a total of 5502 possible syllab=
les.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">(New vocabu=
lary could increase the number of possible syllables; a glance at the above=
list suggests that "barb" could be a Klingon syllable, and certa=
inly /rQ/ seems possible if /rq/ already occurs. If any phoneme in IV excep=
t /'/ is allowed after /r/ in position III, the total number of syllabl=
es would increase to 7077.)</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I'd gue=
ss Klingon has around 1500 monosyllabic words, so the ratio of sense to non=
sense syllables is getting small, less than 1:3. But one error-checking mec=
hanism of a language is that nonsense monosyllables outnumber their intelli=
gible counterparts (though this is probably not the case for Hawaiian). I&#=
39;ve run across estimates that English has about 9000 monosyllabic words o=
ut of over 100000 possible monosyllables. If I say "cork"=C2=A0at=
a noisy dinner party, you might hear it as "fork" or "pork,=
" but you would not expect I said "gork." (Actually, it turn=
s out "gork" is medical slang for a brain-dead patient.)</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">So how does=
this Klingon vocabulary land rush play out?</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">~'eD</div>-- <br>My modeling blo=
g:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://=
bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon-mod=
eler.blogspot.com/</a><br>
My other modeling blog:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://bellerophon.blog.com/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><br>
</div></div></div>
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