[97324] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: maghwI'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Adm qe'San)
Wed Oct 2 19:27:26 2013
From: "Adm qe'San" <qeSan@btinternet.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <ACF6622D959A8842A81E4471BA56A7E001F6CB7C@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 00:26:46 +0100
Reply-To: qeSan@btinternet.com
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Boozer
>
> Voragh:
> >>> [KWOTD: maghwI' traitor (n)][]
> >>
> >> 'urwI' traitor (n) [difference from {maghwI'} unknown]
> >> magh betray, act against (S26) (v)
> >> 'ur commit treason (v)
Another related example to throw into the mix is the noun for "treason"
{'urmang} (TKD) which appears to include {mang} "soldier" combined with
{'ur}.
>
> De'vID:
> > Surely the difference is that a {maghwI'} is a "traitor (betrayer)",
> > whereas an {'urwI'} is a "traitor (one who commits treason)". The
> > former leaves open who or what has been betrayed, whereas the latter
> > specifies that it is a ruler, state, or other political entity
> > (someone or something the betrayal of whom or which constitutes
> treason).
> >
> > The fact that the English glosses are identical obscures this
> > difference, but it's clear in the Klingon.
>
> That's pretty much what I imagine, though I don't like relying just on
> the English gloss for {'ur}. We do have examples for {magh} are:
> <numagh>
> [They've betrayed us. (Untranslated)] ST6
>
> ngoQvam luchavmeH ghawran maghpu' be'nI'pu'
> To this end, the sisters have acted against Gowron...
> in order to gain power. S26
>
> wo' Damagh 'ej bIHegh
> Die betraying the Empire. MKE
>
> Another difference that strikes me - again based on the gloss - is that
> {"ur} "commit treason" may not take an object whereas {magh} "betray"
> does, but we'll have to wait for more examples to be certain. Are
> there any in the {paq'batlh}?
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