[97199] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] "Today is a good day to be that guy"
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Tue Sep 10 11:49:44 2013
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:49:22 +0000
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E877122D5CA5@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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For the newcomers to the list, {vIl} comes from qep'a' 2009. ghunchu'wI' w=
as there and reported that::
The noun {vIl} is hard to define. Maltz had given a description
of something which was immediately recognized as a speed bump
by everyone present, but it was apparently intended not as an
actual definition but as an example of something which is "just
there". There is obviously an etymological relationship with
{vIlle'}, which is currently the best clue we have to its true
meaning. Consider someone who keeps showing up when you go
places. This person doesn't necessarily have any particular
importance to what you're doing, and it wouldn't matter to you
at all if he or she weren't present, but the person is "just
there". That would be a {vIl}. It also can describe someone
who hangs around, ready to help out, whether or not you need
anyone to help you. Again, it wouldn't make any difference to
you if the person weren't there. Here is a direct quote from
Marc Okrand: "A {vIlle'}, on the other hand, is definitely
someone you want to have around--a follower, disciple, fan,
admirer, minion." ("Groupie" and "entourage" were suggested
by those present at the time, but Marc didn't think they fit.)
[7/26/2009]
From: Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:02 AM
"*that* guy" is a difficult concept to pin down; in fact, I don't think I c=
an translate it even into my native tongue.
I believe that "*that* guy" normally refers to "somebody who fits the descr=
iption of a person you will inevitably run into in a certain context, thus =
fulfilling the prophecy that 'there always has to be *that* guy'".
It seems there's usually a negative connotation, sometimes with the implica=
tion that *that* guy is "why we can't have nice things".
Going to a party where wine is served? You just know there's gonna be *that=
* guy who has too much.
Famous actor? You just know there's gonna be *that* guy who calls out to yo=
u across the room by the name of a character you played once.
Want to sleep, but your neighbors are playing loud music? Well, you could g=
o over there and ask them to turn the volume, but ... it would make you *th=
at* guy.
I wonder if the closest equivalent in Klingon may actually be {vIl}: Someth=
ing which is just *there*. Certainly not a perfect translation, though.
________________________________
From: Bellerophon, modeler [bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 00:09
I get that "that guy' overdoes things to get attention. Like Will Wheaton d=
idn't do when he refrained from saying "Qapla'" to the guy with the tattoo,=
or the guy with the tattoo was admitting to being for having it. When Will=
Wheaton said "Today is a good day to be that guy," he was saying it can be=
cool to be that guy. There are degrees of being that guy, and the tattoo w=
as cool. Lampshade over the head, not cool.
[]
On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net<mailto:qu=
nchuy@alcaco.net>> wrote:
Is "be that guy" supposed to imply "act like a jerk"? I always thought
it referred to someone doing or saying something that most people
already were thinking.
If "act like a jerk" is the intended idea, don't we have a verb for
it? I'm thinking {nguq} "be arrogant", or {Qaq} "behave in a falsely
honorable fashion". {Qaqlu'meH QaQ jajvam}
-- ghunchu'wI'
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For the newcomers to the li=
st, {vIl} comes from qep’a’ 2009. ghunchu'wI’ was t=
here and reported that::<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
The noun {<b><span style=3D"color:#C00000">vIl}</span></b> is hard t=
o define. Maltz had given a description<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
of something which was immediately recognized as a speed bump<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
by everyone present, but it was apparently intended not as an
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
actual definition but as an example of something which is ̶=
0;just<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
there”. There is obviously an etymological relationship with<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
{<b>vIlle'}</b>, which is currently the best clue we have to its true=
<br>
meaning. Consider someone who keeps showing up when you go<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
places. This person doesn't necessarily have any particular<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
importance to what you're doing, and it wouldn't matter to you<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
at all if he or she weren't present, but the person is “just<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
there”. That would be a {<b>vIl}</b>. It also can describe some=
one<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
who hangs around, ready to help out, whether or not you need<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
anyone to help you. Again, it wouldn't make any difference to<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
you if the person weren't there. Here is a direct quote from<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
Marc Okrand: "A {<b>vIlle'}</b>, on the other hand, is definitel=
y<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
someone you want to have around--a follower, disciple, fan,<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
admirer, minion." (“<i>Groupie”</i> and “<i>en=
tourage”</i> were suggested<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">=
by those present at the time, but Marc didn't think they fit.)<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> &nb=
sp; [</span><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New"">7/26/=
2009]</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",&=
quot;sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Felix Ma=
lmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:02 AM<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blac=
k">"*that* guy" is a difficult concept to pin down; in fact, I do=
n't think I can translate it even into my native tongue.<br>
<br>
I believe that "*that* guy" normally refers to "somebody who=
fits the description of a person you will inevitably run into in a certain=
context, thus fulfilling the prophecy that 'there always has to be *that* =
guy'".<br>
<br>
It seems there's usually a negative connotation, sometimes with the implica=
tion that *that* guy is "why we can't have nice things".<br>
<br>
Going to a party where wine is served? You just know there's gonna be *that=
* guy who has too much.<br>
<br>
Famous actor? You just know there's gonna be *that* guy who calls out to yo=
u across the room by the name of a character you played once.<br>
<br>
Want to sleep, but your neighbors are playing loud music? Well, you could g=
o over there and ask them to turn the volume, but ... it would make you *th=
at* guy.<br>
<br>
I wonder if the closest equivalent in Klingon may actually be {vIl}: Someth=
ing which is just *there*. Certainly not a perfect translation, though.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
style=3D"color:black">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<div id=3D"divRpF690437">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:b=
lack">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif";color:black"> Bellerophon, modeler [beller=
ophon.modeler@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 10, 2013 00:09<br>
</span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"color:black">I get that "that guy' overdoes thin=
gs to get attention. Like Will Wheaton didn't do when he refrained from say=
ing "Qapla'" to the guy with the tattoo, or the guy with the tatt=
oo was admitting to being for having it. When Will
Wheaton said "Today is a good day to be that guy," he was saying=
it can be cool to be that guy. There are degrees of being that guy, and th=
e tattoo was cool. Lampshade over the head, not cool.
</span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[] </span></i></=
b><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style=3D"color:black">On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Alan And=
erson <<a href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net" target=3D"_blank">qunchuy@a=
lcaco.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:4.8pt"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck">Is "be that guy" supposed to imply "act like a jerk"=
;? I always thought<br>
it referred to someone doing or saying something that most people<br>
already were thinking.<br>
<br>
If "act like a jerk" is the intended idea, don't we have a verb f=
or<br>
it? I'm thinking {nguq} "be arrogant", or {Qaq} "behave in a=
falsely<br>
honorable fashion". {Qaqlu'meH QaQ jajvam}<br>
<br>
-- ghunchu'wI'<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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