[97097] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] fiat justitia ruat coelum
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID)
Tue Sep 3 14:08:29 2013
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E877122D2FA7@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 20:08:11 +0200
From: "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
De'vID:
> How would one translate "fiat justitia ruat coelum", i.e., "Let
> justice be done though the heavens fall."
loghaD:
> How about using {je}?
>
> =ABHeghnISchugh je Hovmey, Qapjaj ruv.=BB
> =3D "May justice succeed, also if the stars must die."
The problem here is that it makes {Qapjaj ruv} conditional on {HeghnIS Hovm=
ey}.
I read this as: "If the stars also need to die, then may justice succeed!"
The question arises: what if the stars don't also need to die?
Another thing: can {-nIS} be used in this way? It's not the stars that
need to die, it's the carrying out of justice which requires them to
die. ({-nIS} expresses a need on behalf of the subject of the verb,
which I don't think applies here.)
loghaD:
> =ABHurghchoH Hovmey net poQchugh je, Qapjaj ruv.=BB
> =3D "May justice succeed, also if it is required that the stars go dark."
Same problem for me: "If it is also required that the stars go dark,
may justice succeed."
Without the sense of "even if", "if" by itself makes the success of
justice conditional. What I want to express is, "justice should
(unconditionally) succeed, even if its success would cause the sky to
fall."
loghaD:
> Or, a more extreme recast:
>
> =ABQapchugh ruv 'ach Heghchugh Hovmey, wIQapta'.=BB
> =3D "If justice succeeds but the stars die, we have achieved success."
A bit too much of a recast, though it expresses the meaning I want to get a=
t.
loghaD:
> =ABQapmeH ruv HeghnISchugh Hovmey, Qapjaj ruv.=BB
> =3D "If the stars must die for justice to succeed, may justice succeed."
Same problem as before with {-chugh}. The speaker just sounds like he
has it in for the stars.
-- =
De'vID
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