[97096] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] fiat justitia ruat coelum
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Tue Sep 3 10:26:26 2013
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W81B5A260953FDC135E9CC9AA310@phx.gbl>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 10:25:24 -0400
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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The Latin doesn't actually mean "Let justice be done, let the heavens
fall." Latin subjunctives don't have any fixed meaning. To translate it
literally, I'd put it "Justice be done, should the heavens fall." It is in
our power to do justice but not to control the heavens, so "let" makes more
sense with "justice be done." We use "let" with a sense of irony when we
say things like "Let it rain."
Can {-jaj} mean other than a wish that something happen? It could be used
ironically in a challenge I suppose, to translate something like "Molon
labe."
~'eD
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ghItlhpu' De'vID, jatlh:
> > How would one translate "fiat justitia ruat coelum", i.e., "Let
> > justice be done though the heavens fall."
>
> I'm surprised you're basing your translation so heavily on the English.
> The Latin merely means "Let justice be done, let the heavens fall", with
> the connection between the two merely implied. I'd do it with nothing more
> than a conjunction:
>
> pumjaj Hov, 'ach rInjaj ruv.
> May the stars fall, but may justice be done.
>
> > My attempt:
> > {ruv chavlu'jaj, vabDot pumnISchugh Hovmey.}
> >
> > I'm not quite sure if {vabDot} works with {-chugh} the way "even" and
> > "if" combine in English, though.
>
> As far as I know we're still not even exactly sure what {vabDot} means, do
> we?
>
> QeS
>
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> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">The Latin doesn't actually mean "Let justice be d=
one, let the heavens fall." Latin subjunctives don't have any fixe=
d meaning. To translate it literally, I'd put it "Justice be done,=
should the heavens fall." It is in our power to do justice=C2=A0but n=
ot to control the heavens, so "let" makes more sense with "j=
ustice be done." We use "let" with a sense of irony when we =
say things like "Let it rain."<br>
<div><br></div><div>Can {-jaj} mean other than a wish that something happen=
? It could be used ironically in a challenge I suppose, to translate someth=
ing like "Molon labe."</div><div>~'eD</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Rohan F=
enwick <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">qeslagh@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">ghItlhpu' De'vID, jatlh:<br>> How would on=
e translate "fiat justitia ruat coelum", i.e., "Let<br><div>=
> justice be done though the heavens fall."<br><br>I'm surprise=
d you're basing your translation so heavily on the English. The Latin m=
erely means "Let justice be done, let the heavens fall", with the=
connection between the two merely implied. I'd do it with nothing more=
than a conjunction:<br>
<br>pumjaj Hov, 'ach rInjaj ruv.<br>May the stars fall, but may justice=
be done.<br><br>> My attempt:<br>> {ruv chavlu'jaj, vabDot pumnI=
Schugh Hovmey.}<br>> <br>> I'm not quite sure if {vabDot} works w=
ith {-chugh} the way "even" and<br>
> "if" combine in English, though.<br><br>As far as I know we&=
#39;re still not even exactly sure what {vabDot} means, do we?<br><br>QeS<b=
r></div> </div></div>
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ing blog:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"=
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hon-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>My other modeling blog:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"h=
ttp://bellerophon.blog.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/=
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