[97089] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] fiat justitia ruat coelum
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Trimboli)
Mon Sep 2 12:34:53 2013
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 12:34:35 -0400
From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <F52986192E9FE346B0B7EF3D6F98E877122D2FA7@EXDB3.ug.kth.se>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
On 9/2/2013 10:50 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
> From: De'vID [de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com]
>
>> How would one translate "fiat justitia ruat coelum", i.e., "Let
>> justice be done though the heavens fall."
>>
>> My attempt:
>> {ruv chavlu'jaj, vabDot pumnISchugh Hovmey.}
>>
>> I'm not quite sure if {vabDot} works with {-chugh} the way "even" and
>> "if" combine in English, though.
Qo'noS romuluS je boSuqlaH. vabDot tera' Qejbogh DIvI' ram boSuqlaH.
"Kronos, Romulus and even the puny Federation's precious Earth are all =
up for grabs."
My reading of {vabDot} is something like, "this, too, if you can believe =
it." The English has a sense of incredulity that, if it exists at all in =
the Klingon, must come from {vabDot}. It's hard to be sure with just one =
loosely translated sentence, though.
If this is correct, it's not suitable for turning conditional clauses =
into subjunctives.
> How about using {je}?
>
> =ABHeghnISchugh je Hovmey, Qapjaj ruv.=BB
> =3D "May justice succeed, also if the stars must die."
I don't get "though" out of "also." "If the stars must also die [in =
addition to doing something else we said before], may justice succeed."
What you're both having trouble with here is that Klingon has no =
subjunctive mood (unless {-jaj} counts). I know this is applicable here, =
because this very quotation is used in at least one latin grammar to =
illustrate English subjunctive! <http://tinyurl.com/mzjr3s3> There is no =
Klingon equivalent to the English subjunctive "though the heavens fall."
The closest you can get is a conditional:
pumchugh Hovmey ruv chavlu'jaj
if the heavens fall, may justice be achieved
I'm assuming that the sense of the original is a wish, not a command. If =
it's a command, then use this:
pumchugh Hovmey ruv yIchav
if the heavens fall, achieve justice!
I went with {chav} "achieve" rather than {ta'} "accomplish" on the =
notion that justice is a state to be brought about rather than a deed to =
be performed. If that's wrong, change to {ta'}.
-- =
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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