[97080] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: naj
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sun Sep 1 13:10:18 2013
In-Reply-To: <CABSTb1dcbi1C0j=3NPJa1BP5Vb6DEv4nLwPZM9TOZ5-R3syuOA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 10:09:32 -0700
To: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I'm reading this at a fuel stop on my phone, so quickly:
ngach is a verb.=20
yep
pab
and yes, I should gave omitted the -laH.=20
- Qov
On 2013-09-01, at 7:46, "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.co=
m> wrote:
> jIjepHa'bejpu'! Actually you got much of it anyway.
> Again without careless mistakes (any remaining mistakes are careful ones):=
>=20
> ngach Daj pIlmoHlaw' nab QaghmeywIj
> 'e' vIppIHbe' jInajtaHvIS je
> maj
> sughoHtaHjaj ej maHvaD QIjjaj matlh
>=20
> {nab Qagh} /grammar error/ (A more experienced speaker's usage would avoid=
confusion where nouns and verbs are identical in form. Perhaps {nabwIj Qagh=
mey} /errors in my grammar/)
>=20
> {'e' vIppIHbe' jInajtaHvIS je} /that (previous sentence) I didn't expect, w=
hile dreaming, too/ (I wanted to work the word of the day back into the thre=
ad, and fell back on a cliche, "not even in my dreams." I considered {neH} i=
nstead of {je}, but it seemed like that would mean my lack of expectation is=
restricted to dreams. Is it just me (you'll probably say it is, Qov) or is t=
here a shortage of adverbials?
>=20
> qama'pu' DISop'a'? 'ey'a' tlhejtaHvIS qetttlhup? (Actually {qama'pu' DISop=
'e' chaw'} makes more sense: he/she permits us to eat, not to be able to ea=
t.)
> QIp chut 'e' Har Mr. Bumble. Ha'DIbaH nuq QIp law', Hoch QIp puS?
> <paqwIj Soppu' targh> jatlh puq. ghiq puq moq ghojmoHwI'.=20
>=20
> ~'eD
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote=
:
>> ngaj Daj pIlmoHlaw' nab QaghmeywIj
>>=20
>> 'e' vIpIHbe' jInajtaHvIS je
>>=20
>> maj
>>=20
>> SughoHtaHjaj 'ej maHvam QIjjaj matlh
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Wow, I=92m not getting any of that.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> short ... interesting ... inspire ... when I dreamed too, I didn=92t expe=
ct my errors to plan. Fine. May you continue to argue and may matlh explain t=
his us.=20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Okay, I got the end, you meant maHvaD, not maHvam, so =93to us.=94
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> The need exists to express the gist of what someone said without quoting.=
Perhaps it's too long to quote, or the actual words are not known with cert=
ainty, but the intended meaning is clear. Klingons value exactness and brevi=
ty, and don't want to waste time or misquote someone. An indirect quote allo=
ws one to get across what was said without implying that it's an exact quote=
. A backdoor way might be something like {jatlh la'. qama'pu' neH la'} or fo=
r that matter {qama' DIjon 'e' ra' la'}.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Right, use a non verb of saying, don=92t try to say what they said, just w=
hat the effect was. =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> HeghnIS Hoch romuluSngan =91e=92 maq.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> qama=92pu=92 DISoplaH =91e=92 chaw=92.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> QIp chut =91e=92 Har.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> paqDaj Soppu=92 targh =91e=92 QIj puq.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> The conversation Felix quoted seems to leave the issue open. I wouldn't b=
et too heavily against Maltz either way.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> ~'eD
>>=20
>> --=20
>> My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
>> My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
> My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I'm reading this at a fuel stop on my p=
hone, so quickly:</div><div><br></div><div>ngach is a verb. </div><div>=
yep</div><div>pab</div><div><br></div><div>and yes, I should gave omitted th=
e -laH. </div><div><br></div><div>- Qov</div><div><br>On 2013-09-01, at=
7:46, "Bellerophon, modeler" <<a href=3D"mailto:bellerophon.modeler@gmai=
l.com">bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote=
type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">jIjepHa'bejpu'! Actually you got much o=
f it anyway.<div>Again without careless mistakes (any remaining mistakes are=
careful ones):<br><div><br><div>ngach Daj pIlmoHlaw' nab QaghmeywIj</div><d=
iv>'e' vIppIHbe' jInajtaHvIS je</div>
<div>maj</div><div>sughoHtaHjaj ej maHvaD QIjjaj matlh</div></div><div><br><=
/div><div>{nab Qagh} /grammar error/ (A more experienced speaker's usage wou=
ld avoid confusion where nouns and verbs are identical in form. Perhaps {nab=
wIj Qaghmey} /errors in my grammar/)</div>
<div><br></div><div>{'e' vIppIHbe' jInajtaHvIS je} /that (previous sentence)=
I didn't expect, while dreaming, too/ (I wanted to work the word of the day=
back into the thread, and fell back on a cliche, "not even in my dreams." I=
considered {neH} instead of {je}, but it seemed like that would mean my lac=
k of expectation is restricted to dreams. Is it just me (you'll probably say=
it is, Qov) or is there a shortage of adverbials?</div>
<div><br></div><div>qama'pu' DISop'a'? 'ey'a' tlhejtaHvIS qetttlhup? (Actual=
ly {qama'pu' DISop 'e' chaw'} makes more sense: he/she permits us to eat, no=
t to be able to eat.)</div>
<div>QIp chut 'e' Har Mr. Bumble. Ha'DIbaH nuq QIp law', Hoch QIp puS?</div>=
<div><paqwIj Soppu' targh> jatlh puq. ghiq puq moq ghojmoHwI'. </=
div><div><br></div><div>~'eD</div></div></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 1,=
2013 at 3:15 AM, Robyn Stewart <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:roby=
n@flyingstart.ca" target=3D"_blank">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>></span> wrot=
e:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-CA" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pur=
ple"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">ngaj Daj pIlmoHlaw' nab QaghmeywIj<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">'e' vIpIHbe' jInajtaHvIS je<u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">maj<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">SughoHtaHjaj 'ej maHvam QIjjaj matlh<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Wow, I=E2=80=99m not ge=
tting any of that. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">short ... interesting .=
.. inspire ... when I dreamed too, I didn=E2=80=99t expect my errors to plan=
. Fine. May you continue to argue and may matlh explain this us. <u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Okay, I got the end, yo=
u meant maHvaD, not maHvam, so =E2=80=9Cto us.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal">
The need exists to express the gist of what someone said without quoting. Pe=
rhaps it's too long to quote, or the actual words are not known with certain=
ty, but the intended meaning is clear. Klingons value exactness and brevity,=
and don't want to waste time or misquote someone. An indirect quote allows o=
ne to get across what was said without implying that it's an exact quote. A b=
ackdoor way might be something like {jatlh la'. qama'pu' neH la'} or for tha=
t matter {qama' DIjon 'e' ra' la'}.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Right, use a non verb o=
f saying, don=E2=80=99t try to say what they said, just what the effect was.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">HeghnIS Hoch romuluSnga=
n =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 maq.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">qama=E2=80=99pu=E2=80=99=
DISoplaH =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 chaw=E2=80=99.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">QIp chut =E2=80=98e=E2=80=
=99 Har.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">paqDaj Sopp=
u=E2=80=99 targh =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 QIj puq.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"IT" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u=
></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The conversation Felix quo=
ted seems to leave the issue open. I wouldn't bet too heavily against Maltz e=
ither way.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">~'eD<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br><br>-- <br>=
My modeling blog: <a h=
ref=3D"http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://be=
llerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>
My other modeling blog: <a href=3D"http://bellerophon.blog.com/" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><u></u><u></u></font></span></p=
></div></div></div></div></div><br>_________________________________________=
______<br>
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nk">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>My modeli=
ng blog: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon=
-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>My other modeling blog: <a href=3D"http:=
//bellerophon.blog.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><=
br>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
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